4 door diesel 4x4
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OK talked to Dodge dealer today and he told me I get the same deal on any truck that have on the lot...(now or later) just so he does not have to special order or dealer trade I can get for 1% under invoice...They have one I like but it is black. I am in florida and black = hot. so being that I like th Dodge and the Ford I guess I will shop the fords some and if I can get a real good deal then fine but I don't see paying much more for one
Egon
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The best thing Ford can do is to get the Cummins engines in their trucks since they own Cummins now. <font color="blue"> </font>
Some years ago Ford had about 7% interest in Cummins. This has been sold off and they have no ownership in Cummins at this time.
Egon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Some years ago Ford had about 7% interest in Cummins. This has been sold off and they have no ownership in Cummins at this time.
Egon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
eee
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/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
cowboydoc
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<font color="green"> I have to strongly disagree with that statement </font>
Well you can disagree all you want but it's not my opinion but the facts. The auto testing places that do those #'s showed that the powerstroke was the longest lasting and most trouble free diesel motor. I was also surprised to see those facts as I thought cummins was more reliable as well. But the facts are the facts.
As far as 200k and a rebuild well that's bs. I'm not going by what you see on a website but personal experience. We have over a dozen powerstrokes on the ranches and half of those are in the 400-500k range and have never been rebuilt. I'm sure there are some that were rebuilt at 200k just like I personally know guys that rebuilt a dodge at 200k.
As far as cheap power you're way off base there too with the new trucks. You haven't been able to turn up the pump and get more power with a dodge for quite a few years now. Yes that used to be true but not anymore. Also you can get just as much hp out of a powerstroke as a dodge. To say one is better than the other just shows lack of knowledge about the two. With a simple $295 tuner from Superchips I can have my powerstroke run 475 hp and 700 lbs. of torque. My brother is up to 600 hp with his propane boost and way over 1200 lbs. of torque. He's still on the original six speed too. And yep so can the dodge. I'm not sure which drag races or pulls you're going to but dodge sure doesn't dominate at any of the places that I've been to. Not saying Dodge doesn't do well but so does the Ford.
As far as the picture that you attached it's an inline six for gosh sakes. Of course it's going to have huge rods. The powerstroke and duramax are v-8s. You're comparing apples to oranges there. Our dang inline six 300 gas engine has big rods too.
Well you can disagree all you want but it's not my opinion but the facts. The auto testing places that do those #'s showed that the powerstroke was the longest lasting and most trouble free diesel motor. I was also surprised to see those facts as I thought cummins was more reliable as well. But the facts are the facts.
As far as 200k and a rebuild well that's bs. I'm not going by what you see on a website but personal experience. We have over a dozen powerstrokes on the ranches and half of those are in the 400-500k range and have never been rebuilt. I'm sure there are some that were rebuilt at 200k just like I personally know guys that rebuilt a dodge at 200k.
As far as cheap power you're way off base there too with the new trucks. You haven't been able to turn up the pump and get more power with a dodge for quite a few years now. Yes that used to be true but not anymore. Also you can get just as much hp out of a powerstroke as a dodge. To say one is better than the other just shows lack of knowledge about the two. With a simple $295 tuner from Superchips I can have my powerstroke run 475 hp and 700 lbs. of torque. My brother is up to 600 hp with his propane boost and way over 1200 lbs. of torque. He's still on the original six speed too. And yep so can the dodge. I'm not sure which drag races or pulls you're going to but dodge sure doesn't dominate at any of the places that I've been to. Not saying Dodge doesn't do well but so does the Ford.
As far as the picture that you attached it's an inline six for gosh sakes. Of course it's going to have huge rods. The powerstroke and duramax are v-8s. You're comparing apples to oranges there. Our dang inline six 300 gas engine has big rods too.
Dargo
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Even though I'll readily admit, and did, that I like the Ford pickup's over the Dodge pickups, I'll have to go with the masses and still have to adamantly disagree with you on the durability. I don't take it personally, but I really wanted to buy a Ford, so I even tried as hard as I could to interpret the facts to lean towards the Powerstroke, but they just were not there.
Among the ASE certified master techs who specialize in compression combustion engines, I'd have to say that the consensus would be 20 to 1 saying that the Cummins would outlast the Powerstroke. As far as how much power you can get out of one, now I'll agree that is up for debate as much as which oil is better, dino or synthetic. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Your assumption of my lack of knowledge of the Powerstroke and Cummins engine without knowing me gives me reason to doubt your conclusions. You've come to a conclusion without knowing all the facts. Not getting testy here, just pointing out a fact taught in debate class 101. Also taught there, the first person to lose their cool or composure generally looses the debate. Remember now, I'm on your side, I like the Ford pickup better. My Dodge dealer even knows that. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
As far as the rods go, it is not debatable that the rod is what directly transfers the power from the actual combustion to the crank. The turning crank is where you harness your power. It doesn't matter if you have 16 rods, if one is weak, or if you apply too much pressure to one, there goes the whole shootin' match. Please also note the diameter of the crank. Again, you grab all of your power off of the crank. If you have 16 pistons or 3, if your crank is smaller and weaker, it will break easier than a larger and stronger crank. It is a pure matter of physics. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I know you wouldn't be interested, but there is a very nice and profitable business that advertises on the internet which takes brand new Ford pickups and puts in the Cummins engine. http://www.fordcummins.com/ Now that would be the ticket! Unfortunately, the conversion costs nearly twenty thousand dollars. For that much, I'll just keep my '96 Dodge (i.e. the 12 valve, you know, the type you can easily up the power in by adding more fuel, advancing the timing, and increasing the turbo size).
My neighbor with his 2004 Powerstroke has spent several hundred dollars on his variable "chip" to change the power in his Powerstroke. Since we live in a rural area, we have had the opportunity to race them dozens of times. It still kills him that I can run away from him with my little Cummins. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif Okay, I may be having too much fun too, because I haven't exactly fessed up to what I've done to my engine. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
One thing I will agree with you about though, is the transmission. I'll let you guess how long my stock Dodge automatic transmission lasted with my power output. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif I did have to spend what I consider rather big bucks to go with an ATS Stage V transmission. I won't tell you how much it cost me, because it may make me cry again, but you can visit their site at http://www.atsdiesel.com/index.asp. My neighbor with the Powerstroke that is "chipped"...he just bought a new transmission for his lovely truck there. He blew his auto out and the dealer voided his warranty due to "abuse". He didn't think it would matter if he let them know that he had changed the performance.
Anyway, we'll just have to strongly disagree about the Powerstroke vs Cummins durability. You sound rather set in your thoughts, and I darn sure researched it a great deal before I bought my Cummins since I wanted a Ford. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Among the ASE certified master techs who specialize in compression combustion engines, I'd have to say that the consensus would be 20 to 1 saying that the Cummins would outlast the Powerstroke. As far as how much power you can get out of one, now I'll agree that is up for debate as much as which oil is better, dino or synthetic. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Your assumption of my lack of knowledge of the Powerstroke and Cummins engine without knowing me gives me reason to doubt your conclusions. You've come to a conclusion without knowing all the facts. Not getting testy here, just pointing out a fact taught in debate class 101. Also taught there, the first person to lose their cool or composure generally looses the debate. Remember now, I'm on your side, I like the Ford pickup better. My Dodge dealer even knows that. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
As far as the rods go, it is not debatable that the rod is what directly transfers the power from the actual combustion to the crank. The turning crank is where you harness your power. It doesn't matter if you have 16 rods, if one is weak, or if you apply too much pressure to one, there goes the whole shootin' match. Please also note the diameter of the crank. Again, you grab all of your power off of the crank. If you have 16 pistons or 3, if your crank is smaller and weaker, it will break easier than a larger and stronger crank. It is a pure matter of physics. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I know you wouldn't be interested, but there is a very nice and profitable business that advertises on the internet which takes brand new Ford pickups and puts in the Cummins engine. http://www.fordcummins.com/ Now that would be the ticket! Unfortunately, the conversion costs nearly twenty thousand dollars. For that much, I'll just keep my '96 Dodge (i.e. the 12 valve, you know, the type you can easily up the power in by adding more fuel, advancing the timing, and increasing the turbo size).
My neighbor with his 2004 Powerstroke has spent several hundred dollars on his variable "chip" to change the power in his Powerstroke. Since we live in a rural area, we have had the opportunity to race them dozens of times. It still kills him that I can run away from him with my little Cummins. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif Okay, I may be having too much fun too, because I haven't exactly fessed up to what I've done to my engine. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
One thing I will agree with you about though, is the transmission. I'll let you guess how long my stock Dodge automatic transmission lasted with my power output. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif I did have to spend what I consider rather big bucks to go with an ATS Stage V transmission. I won't tell you how much it cost me, because it may make me cry again, but you can visit their site at http://www.atsdiesel.com/index.asp. My neighbor with the Powerstroke that is "chipped"...he just bought a new transmission for his lovely truck there. He blew his auto out and the dealer voided his warranty due to "abuse". He didn't think it would matter if he let them know that he had changed the performance.
Anyway, we'll just have to strongly disagree about the Powerstroke vs Cummins durability. You sound rather set in your thoughts, and I darn sure researched it a great deal before I bought my Cummins since I wanted a Ford. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
cowboydoc
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<font color="green">still have to adamantly disagree with you on the durability </font>
If you read my post IT WAS NOT MY OPINION ON THIS MATTER. This is what was found with the research done by the independent agencies that test the vehicles. Ford has it blasted all over their powerstroke brochures. You really think if it wasn't true that Dodge wouldn't have slapped a lawsuit on Ford?
Also how in the world would you ever get that size of a rod in a v-8?? Think about it. Those are the size rods that you would see in a semi V-8. You say I don't know what your knowledge is and I don't. But what you're saying sure isn't what is true about the rods in pickups. I have no desire to debate you at all. The facts are just the facts and you are going to have big rods in an inline six that no V-8 is going to compare to. That certainly does not mean that the rods in that engine are weaker. There are completely different stresses in both engines. You have a long stroke with the dodge and need that size of rod to hold up to the power created. You don't need that size of a rod in a v-8 to make the same strength. Same with the crank. The Dodge makes needs that size of a crank to withstand the force. The Ford doesn't need that big of a crank because the force is dispersed over more area. Also the dodge crank is longer than the ford crank. Because it's longer it is going to be weaker. Because it's inherently weaker it's going to need to be beefed up more to hold. There's really nothing to debate. It's comparing apples to oranges. It's like saying well the Ford has 8 cylinders so it's a better motor or better yet the other stupid argument that I hear is that the Ford has more displacement so it's capable of more power. Well that's just about as bogus as this conversation.
They're both awesome engines. I sure wouldn't make my mind up based on the engine alone. I think the cummins is an awesome engine. And until I read this latest 10 year report on the two I would have agreed with you that cummins was more reliable. Take it however you want it but it's not my opinion but what the facts show from the people that did the research.
If you read my post IT WAS NOT MY OPINION ON THIS MATTER. This is what was found with the research done by the independent agencies that test the vehicles. Ford has it blasted all over their powerstroke brochures. You really think if it wasn't true that Dodge wouldn't have slapped a lawsuit on Ford?
Also how in the world would you ever get that size of a rod in a v-8?? Think about it. Those are the size rods that you would see in a semi V-8. You say I don't know what your knowledge is and I don't. But what you're saying sure isn't what is true about the rods in pickups. I have no desire to debate you at all. The facts are just the facts and you are going to have big rods in an inline six that no V-8 is going to compare to. That certainly does not mean that the rods in that engine are weaker. There are completely different stresses in both engines. You have a long stroke with the dodge and need that size of rod to hold up to the power created. You don't need that size of a rod in a v-8 to make the same strength. Same with the crank. The Dodge makes needs that size of a crank to withstand the force. The Ford doesn't need that big of a crank because the force is dispersed over more area. Also the dodge crank is longer than the ford crank. Because it's longer it is going to be weaker. Because it's inherently weaker it's going to need to be beefed up more to hold. There's really nothing to debate. It's comparing apples to oranges. It's like saying well the Ford has 8 cylinders so it's a better motor or better yet the other stupid argument that I hear is that the Ford has more displacement so it's capable of more power. Well that's just about as bogus as this conversation.
They're both awesome engines. I sure wouldn't make my mind up based on the engine alone. I think the cummins is an awesome engine. And until I read this latest 10 year report on the two I would have agreed with you that cummins was more reliable. Take it however you want it but it's not my opinion but what the facts show from the people that did the research.