4100 wont start in cold weather

coloradotrout · Feb 4, 2014

Years back I posted about an oil burn problem -- so clearly I'm not getting the best compression. Still runs though. Winters can be hard. Usually I can get started by heating oil pan with blow dryer and then directing that hot air into the intake.

But not this time. I was about 30F out the other day and I had the pan warm and still no ignition. I noticed my fuel was real low, so I filled the tank.

I'm wondering about gelling -- it had been below freezing quite a few nights/days with that low fuel level.

How can I tell if fuel is getting to the cylinders? Anything else to try?

I need to get back around to my engine issue -- I'll post the old link. Here it is -- http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/parts-repairs/68867-new-used-rebuilt-engine-needed-8.html

coloradotrout · Feb 4, 2014

should I try some Diesel 911 additive?
Power Service Diesel 9-1-1, 32 oz: Automotive : Walmart.com

Egon · Feb 5, 2014

Throw a tarp over the tractor and then put a small electric heater under it. .

kuboman · Feb 5, 2014

Is there any smoke out the exhaust when you crank it. If so then you are getting fuel. You need to warm it up and try again. It maybe is just getting too weak.

DFB · Feb 5, 2014

There has been several postings about glow plug timer failure on the 4100's after a number of years of service. Mine went out last winter. Haven't replaced it yet its about an $80 part. You can still manually activate the glow plugs by engaging the dash mounted PTO switch and holding the key on in the start position for several seconds. One good indicator of timer module failure is under charging the battery as the alternator cant keep up with the current drain. Simply unplugging the timer eliminates that problem. Good luck to you getting it started. You may or may not have other issues.

RalphVa · Feb 5, 2014

Does your 4100 have a glow plug light? My 4010 did not. You have to pull up the PTO button or put the range selector in L or H and then turn the ignition switch to "start" and hold it to run the glow plugs. I just counted to 6 in the winter and 2 in the summer. Then push the PTO button in or move range selector to N. Always started with about 1/2 rotation of the crankshaft like all diesel engines I've owned. Gotta apply about 1/3 to 1/2 throttle and back off to get 1500 rpm once it starts.

Ralph

RalphVa · Feb 5, 2014

Does your 4100 have a glow plug light? My 4010 did not. You have to pull up the PTO button or put the range selector in L or H and then turn the ignition switch to "start" and hold it to run the glow plugs. I just counted to 6 in the winter and 2 in the summer. Then push the PTO button in or move range selector to N. Always started with about 1/2 rotation of the crankshaft like all diesel engines I've owned. Gotta apply about 1/3 to 1/2 throttle and back off to get 1500 rpm once it starts.

Ralph

coloradotrout · Feb 8, 2014

According to manual, just need to turn switch to start, wait 2s or so, then engage. Ah, not sure if the timer is working or not. The battery had been taking a charge. I will try the PTO switch, hold-on, approach.

I also did have some gelled-up gunk in the filter. I removed, cleaned it out, and filled 1/2 full with the 911. Now my battery appears to be dead as well -- not taking a charge, so using the marine battery in hopes I can get it to start.

DFB · Feb 8, 2014

Probably should clarify that the low charge condition would be if the timer contacts stay stuck in the closed postion and don't open the circuit after the timed starting interval...on the other hand if the timer contacts fail to close there would no current to the glow plugs at all. Get a good charge on the battery and try the manual preheat 5-10 sec see if it fires up

Make sure the throttle is in a partly open position too

coloradotrout · Feb 8, 2014

No luck. I'm thinking there is a fuel issue between the filter and the cylinder. It does not seem like I'm getting fuel smoke. There's an odd smell. With the filter as gummed-up, frozen (looked like water), as it was, makes me think those same issues are further along as well.

coloradotrout · Feb 8, 2014

Why do I sense I need to somehow cleanout the injectors?

coloradotrout · Feb 10, 2014

coloradotrout said:
Why do I sense I need to somehow cleanout the injectors?

and how would I go about doing that?

DFB · Feb 10, 2014

Remove them and clean them in diesel. First see is fuel getting to the pump...is the fuel pump working? Does the fuel tank relay engage and flow fuel when you turn the key?

coloradotrout · Feb 10, 2014

DFB said:
Remove them and clean them in diesel. First see is fuel getting to the pump...is the fuel pump working? Does the fuel tank relay engage and flow fuel when you turn the key?

I"m a little green here. Can you give me some procedural info on how to do this? I have the service manual, but again, they assume some deeper knowledge of this than I have. And sub-freezing weather makes this all the more challenging.

Do I pull off a line ahead of the pump? After the pump? I see a note about very high pressure.

coloradotrout · Feb 10, 2014

DFB said:
Remove them and clean them in diesel. First see is fuel getting to the pump...is the fuel pump working? Does the fuel tank relay engage and flow fuel when you turn the key?

Can I just start removing lines? As I recall there is a short rubber line from filter to transfer pump and another form there to injector pump. In this sub freezing weather I've just been reluctant to start tearing it apart. Not sure I have any choice -- other than wait for March!

RalphVa · Feb 10, 2014

I'd more suspect the glow plugs rather than injectors. I've had 3 diesel cars and 2 diesel tractors and now also have a diesel generator. The first two diesel cars had lots of miles on them. I've never had to touch the injectors on any diesel equipment yet. The 2nd car had 2 of the 4 glow plugs go out at around 250k miles and over 20 years.

Get a voltage checker and put the positive contact onto one of the glow plug wires and the negative to ground. Check that you get voltage with the ignition key in start position and the PTO turned on.

If all 3 have voltage, then I'd remove them to see which ones are bad. If you have a continuity checker, you could put one side on the top terminal of the plug and the other to ground and see if there's a continuity to determine maybe which one is bad. The burned out one(s) won't have any continuity through the plug to ground.

Ralph

coloradotrout · Feb 10, 2014

RalphVa said:
I'd more suspect the glow plugs rather than injectors. I've had 3 diesel cars and 2 diesel tractors and now also have a diesel generator. The first two diesel cars had lots of miles on them. I've never had to touch the injectors on any diesel equipment yet. The 2nd car had 2 of the 4 glow plugs go out at around 250k miles and over 20 years.

Get a voltage checker and put the positive contact onto one of the glow plug wires and the negative to ground. Check that you get voltage with the ignition key in start position and the PTO turned on.

If all 3 have voltage, then I'd remove them to see which ones are bad. If you have a continuity checker, you could put one side on the top terminal of the plug and the other to ground and see if there's a continuity to determine maybe which one is bad. The burned out one(s) won't have any continuity through the plug to ground.

Ralph

Worth the check, but she's always started hard in the winter, just this time around I had ice in the bottom of the fuel filter and after warming up some with with a blow dryer on the oil pan for an hour and then blowing into the intake, I could still get no fire. All times before this would do the trick. The glow plugs may well be bad as well. I'll update.

Egon · Feb 11, 2014

Is the fuel solenoid opening?

DFB · Feb 11, 2014

Disconnect the short hose between the fuel transfer pump and injector pump and see if fuel flows. Should be 4oz/minute flow. If it doesn't meet spec and the fuel filter is clean and not clogged pump may be no good

coloradotrout · Feb 21, 2014

Quick update. About 50F today. Seems in part a battery issue. I pulled the Optima out, charged it up, and it held voltage. I put it in, it cranked once, and then I'd hear the clicking noise (relay not closing) and the starter would not fully engage. Then I swapped in another marine battery I had, but this time I completely removed the Optima. It cranked 10x stronger, and within 3 cranks, started up.

So I do not have a fuel issue. Good news.

Next I checked the voltage at the glow plugs- the middle one and the one nearest the front (to get to back, have to pull off air cleaner). Both have 12v -- ALL THE TIME (when switch is on, when cranking, when running). So I guess I have some kind of glow plug shut-off issue as I believe someone mentioned. My guess it those plugs are then burned out (is that possible?), and as such do not work in cold weather.