4110 Final Drive

[David Berglund]

Hi,

I have a while back purchased a Hakotrac 2100 DA. This is a Yanmar built tractor, and to the best of my research it seems to be the same base tractor as the John Deere 4110. I have confirmed that the engine is the same - the Yanmar 3TNE74, but the rest is just based on a visual similarity that goes beyon just looking fairly alike.

My tractor was bought for a bargain knowing that the left hand rear final drive was busted. And since the Hakotrac spare parts are insanely expensive in Sweden where I live, I'm looking to buy the internal to the final drive in US where they cost approximately 1/3 of Swedish prices.

Now I'm looking for help to verify that I'm right in my conclusions above regarding tractor kinship, and that gears from a JD will fit my Hakotrac.

Below is two picture showing a JD rear end, and a printout from the JD OEM spare catalogue. Under it is a similar view on my specific tractor along with a similar view from the Hako OEM spare catalogue.

My gear (#22 in the JD Catalogue printout below) has 46 teeth, a total diameter of 144mm and a tooth width of 35mm. Could anyone confirm that this is the same as the JD part number M807858?

 

[David Berglund]

Here's a few pictures of my final drive disassembled

 

[kennyd]

David, welcome to TBN.
I have a 4110, just not sure how I could help other than taking my tractor apart-but sorry that's not happening! In fact that pic you posted is mine when I was showing the mower lock-up kit.

Possibly calling a dealer in the US, ask them to search for a dealer who has one in stock then call them and ask them to measure for you. I just checked and my closest 5 dealers show zero in stock.

View attachment 365984

 

[David Berglund]

Thanks Kennyd!
I get that it's a longshot that someone should be able to answer my question right away

I guess my best chance would be if any one have had their final drive apart and had documentet it the same way as I did.

I'll give your suggestion a go today by calling a few JD service centers.

 

[Zebrafive]

JDparts does not give much in the way of specs for the gear other than weight. 4.23 lbs or 1.92 KG. You might want weigh your gear. If the weight matches or is a little lighter (for the missing pieces) take a chance on the JD part.

 

[Zebrafive]

I doubt you will find a dealer with this in stock. Not saying it can't be ordered, just not stocked.

 

[David Berglund]

Great idea about the weight, will check it tomorrow. :thumbsup:

I spoke to a couple of dealers today and they all shared the point that no dealer keeps this on stock.

One was extra helpful and told me JD have a policy where non-stock parts can be returend with 25% off, and since the gear is approx $270 I'm only gambling with $68.

With a confirmtion on the weight numbers as suggested I guess I will place the order.

 

[David Berglund]

Can this site be trusted?

It says the largest dimension is 33cm = 330mm (13") which is a HUGE gear. By all my certainty regarding picture comparasion it shouldn't be a chance for such a big gear to fit in the final drive housing of the 4110. Or perhaps it is including packaging?

EDIT: Since they are stateing "shipping weight" specifically, perhaps it should be understood that the dimensions are shipping dimensions also? What do you think?

 

[David Berglund]

weighed it now, 1856 grams

So 64 grams below the specified weight which makes me even more certain that the measurements must be including packaging. No way a 330mm gear would weight only 1,92kg.

I will now start to call after a service point who can order it for me and I will have to gamble with a 20% penalty upon eventual re-stocking.

The saga continues

 

[David Berglund]

So I found a nice dealer that promised to help me confirm my measurements with OEM JD parts, so hopefully I will get an answer from them today - followed by an order of the parts i need.

However yesterday I continued to disassemble, and removed the final drive on the right side too. Idea is to take out the differential which is fastened from the right hand side, and get a good view into the gearcase to inspect and clean. However I was a bit surprised and chocked when metal chips started to fall out of the right hand side drain plug as well.

Once apart I could see that the gear and pinion was in good shape but the bearing had lost half its balls and once placing all the balls in the bottom of the bearing I could make the axle play approx 3mm up and down.

So I need to change this side's bearings as well, but hopefully nothing else, however it will become very evident if that's the case when I get the diff out.

To my question, any clues as to why this has happened?
Are theese tractors (question beeing directed assuming this is a JD 4110 doppelganger) known for busting theese bearings?

 

[kennyd]

David, the 4110/4115 were very popular back in the day with many units sold, I've never read of rear drive failures such as this before. Not saying they are perfect-but the trannys are pretty bullet proof.

 

[David Berglund]

OK,

Good to know, even thouth it makes me even more comfused as to why this has happened in my case. This was an ensurance "total loss" unit, that I managed to byu at a very low price with the hope to manage to repair it.

This next question may be hard or impossible to answer considering they usually never brake, but are this system known to be sensitive to comtaminated oil?

This is how my hydro intake filter looks like. On the inside there were no chips at all but there was a very thin coat of fine fine black aluminium residue.

I assume that the flow shart on the hydro is Pick-up filter -> Primary pump -> Hydro Oil filter -> Actual hydrostatic motor? Is this correct?

 

[David Berglund]

Just got a confirmation from JD that the number of teeth and also the outer diameter is in fact the same.

They told me that the tooth width was 10mm instead of my 35mm but this must simply be a misunderstanding. First because a 10mm gear width woudn't do the job or correspond to the catalogue drawing view, but also I found that the distance between each and every other tooth is precicely 10mm.

Conclusion: I can from now on consider it to be the same tranny if not entire tractor without worries

TBC

 

[kennyd]

This next question may be hard or impossible to answer considering they usually never brake, but are this system known to be sensitive to comtaminated oil?

ALL hydrostatic trannys are sensitive to this, they are basically large pumps that move varying volumes of oil to move the machine. The picture you show is bad, but I dont think that cause your failure, but resulted from it.
Most OEM's recommend a tranny service at the first 50 hours to clear the debris from the manufacturing process-looks like your may have never been done.

 

[David Berglund]

I agree that it is indeed a result from the failure rather than the reason.

I have 3 other Hydro Tractors, 2 Bolens and another one, so I'm familiar with the mechanism. However I was wondering if theese JD's are known to have a specifically sensitive hydro. But I guess your response in #11 might be answer enough.

The only information I've got regarding what happened is that they found an oil pool under the left hand final drive and when investigating it they found a hole punched underneeth, probably by one of the bearing balls getting stuck under the gear. So as to my best knowledge the tractor was running up until this, and hence I think that my means to success would be to change theese specific parts that I find have broken, and then focus on some serious cleaning.

However there is quite a big difference in splitting the entire mechanics in the tranny and hydro, or just focusing on specific areas.

I guess I will have a better clue when I've removed the filters and dissected them, but my goal would be to fokus on the rear parts where the actual visual damage is done, and than do 2-3 very tight filter and oil changes in the beginning. Perhaps only 5 minuts of running inbetween the first two.

At least thats the plan.
Or should I rather disassemble everything - better safe than sorry?

I Payed equal to $1500 for the tractor with 100 hours on the rear tires so I think it was a very good deal regardless of what I might find.

Here it is with the tires as counter weight for it not to tip over

 

[David Berglund]

Realised I had no picture on it complete in this thread.

Here it is

 

[RG1]

That is definitely a 4110 in red Yanmar clothes. When you got it, did you pay attention as to whether or not the oil fill cap in front of the seat was installed and/or tight? It's possible that some water got in there and created havoc. Did the fluid (if there was any left in the trans) show signs of water contamination at all?

 

[David Berglund]

Hi!

Yes I think the only differences is that the Hako has a front lift and a expanded hydraulic system.

The hydraulic have 2 double acting and 1 singel acting aux circuits. I don't think the JD has this right?

 

[RG1]

The JD's come with two SCV's at the front of the right step/foot rest. anything more is optional.

With the name of David, I take it that that is not you on the tractor. Is that a co-worker, wife, daughter?

 

[David Berglund]

A co-worker that was assigned the very imported job of modeling for the tractor