425 Road Work

bol4fun · May 8, 2017

After looking at Power Trac for 15 years, I believe I am ready to purchase one finally. One of the first things I will need it for is putting in a about 400 ft of road and am curious if any of the attachments, box blade, buckets, etc. can be modified to be mounted so they can cut at an angle to form a crown in the middle of the road and also make a small ditch on both sides of the road. I also want to cut in some terraces in one of the bigger ravines. If not, can anyone suggest how they would do it with a 425?

I bought an acreage (7 acres mostly ravines) in 2002, sold it in 2008 when the economy went to ****, and just purchased it back for less than I sold it for. My plan is to build a retirement home there and use the power trac extensively for moving dirt around and cutting out trails and swithbacks in the ravines. The biggest ravine has a small creek that empties into a river about a mile down the creek and I have permission to cut a trail down to the river. I realize that moving hundreds and hundreds of yards of dirt around is going to take forever so have pretty much decided to have a bulldozer come in first and move some of the monstrous stuff first.

MossRoad · May 8, 2017

Welcome to TBN! :thumbsup:

I'm not aware of any STOCK attachments that can be angled to make a crowned road. If you're hiring a dozer, why not have them do that task for you? Just curious. It would be a snap with a dozer. Purchasing and modifying adds time and cost.

What soil types do you have?

woodlandfarms · May 8, 2017

I maintain a mile long gravel road... Saddly the PT does a fantastic job of leveling crowns.

A bunch of things in no particular order. Road work is primarily done driving backwards with a PT. I tink I am the exception in that I bought a york rake and push it (It has guide wheels) and it works very well. Doesn't do so well creating a crown.

I would not consider a box blade. It is a regret of mine, my box blade. Wish I had bought a land plane.

There is a way to make an implement tilt... but it is not easy. I bought a 3pt adapter (adapts PT to 3PT) and then created a "Tilt" feature. It worked well but was very inconvenient.

As this road does not exist, I would use a bulldozer, and then the correct gravel. Meaning a thick run of 4" or larger, then 3/4" to fill.

bol4fun · May 8, 2017

The road will be primarily on Iowa farm ground so pretty soft. The terracing is what concerns me although a minihoe might work would be really slow going. Still debating on whether to get 4 n 1 bucket or grapple bucket since supposedly it digs much better.

MossRoad · May 8, 2017

I don't have either the 4-in-1 or grapple buckets. I do have the large material bucket and the small rock bucket with teeth. The smaller bucket is beefier, and the teeth make all the difference in the world. I believe (but don't quote me on this) the grapple bucket is the small rock bucket with teeth and a grapple. Same bucket as far as I know. Looking back 15 years, I should have purchased the grapple bucket instead of just the rock bucket with teeth. Many times a grapple would have come in handy. The large material bucket is a must have for moving loose material. Its twice as large as the small bucket and holds three times as much with heaping. It's cheap. Get one if you have the $$. It's worth it.

The quick attach on the PT machines is what makes them super productive. You'll be swapping implements like a Swiss Army knife. You'll actually smile to yourself each time you use the quick attach for several years after purchase... especially if you've ever dealt with 3pt implements.

Hopefully some of the other owners will pop in the next couple days and tell you how they handle crowned roads.

When I put our road in (about 350'), I used an old, used IH 2500b tractor loader. We bought the large, used machine to tackle the huge jobs and once they were done, we parked it, thinking we'd bring it out for any large jobs that came up, and bought the PT425 for maintaining....... the IH sat unused for about 10 years and then I sold it. The little PT425 was just way too versatile, nimble and fast compared to the IH. About the only thing the IH could do better was push stuff over, like large trees. Other than that, I've never missed it.

woodlandfarms · May 9, 2017

Right tool for the right job. Get a dedicated grapple and a dedicated tooth bucket. The combo version works ok but the individuals work so much better. And while I love my pt, only one of my 10 or so implements is made by them.

ponytug · May 9, 2017

Congratulations on the real estate and joining the PT clan.

A few more thoughts. If it is entertainment, use the PT. The 4N1 is OK at carving roads, but you will do it 1/3 of a cubic yard at a time. You cut yourself a pad of the appropriate slope and and angle and use the PT to project that forward. If you want to get it done, I would hire a bulldozer operator and get the major earth moving done. Back fill with rock, compact, fill with 3/4"- gravel and compact and you have a road. Similarly, if you turn the PT 90 degrees to the road and start a ditch, you can then put the PT in the ditch to continue it down the road.

Power track does not make the tool you need to crown roads, which is a box blade with a left/right vertical height adjustable tilt function. If you want to make one, you would need to mount the box blade on an axle running the direction of the tractor. I would then use the Q/A circuit to drive a cylinder to give you the rotation that you need.

Without a left / right tilt, you would be forced to try and crown the road by making diagonal cuts and longitudinal drags. It will not be easy. Once it is in place, using a land plane, especially one with an ability to shunt material L/R can maintain a crown.

Hope you have fun!

All the best,

Peter

bol4fun · May 9, 2017

ponytug said:
Congratulations on the real estate and joining the PT clan.

A few more thoughts. If it is entertainment, use the PT. The 4N1 is OK at carving roads, but you will do it 1/3 of a cubic yard at a time. You cut yourself a pad of the appropriate slope and and angle and use the PT to project that forward. If you want to get it done, I would hire a bulldozer operator and get the major earth moving done. Back fill with rock, compact, fill with 3/4"- gravel and compact and you have a road. Similarly, if you turn the PT 90 degrees to the road and start a ditch, you can then put the PT in the ditch to continue it down the road.

Power track does not make the tool you need to crown roads, which is a box blade with a left/right vertical height adjustable tilt function. If you want to make one, you would need to mount the box blade on an axle running the direction of the tractor. I would then use the Q/A circuit to drive a cylinder to give you the rotation that you need.

Without a left / right tilt, you would be forced to try and crown the road by making diagonal cuts and longitudinal drags. It will not be easy. Once it is in place, using a land plane, especially one with an ability to shunt material L/R can maintain a crown.

Hope you have fun!

All the best,

Peter

That is a great idea.... I am retired and have plenty of time but anxious to get building. I have actually been debating (back and fourth in my mind) of getting the 1430 instead of the 425. I love the idea of not breathing diesel fumes all day and small footprint but the extra power and bigger implements are very tempting.

ponytug · May 10, 2017

Everybody has different sensitivities, but I have the 1445, and I can't say that the diesel smell is very noticeable to me, unless I spill it refueling. The Deutz engines are pretty well designed.

BTW: because the tires are large, the force per unit area is low in the PT tractors, which is great for grass and off road work, but it means that they aren't very good at compacting roads. Add a sand filled roller, and you are better shape, but the bulldozer is probably better.

All the best,

Peter

MossRoad · May 10, 2017

bol4fun said:
That is a great idea.... I am retired and have plenty of time but anxious to get building. I have actually been debating (back and fourth in my mind) of getting the 1430 instead of the 425. I love the idea of not breathing diesel fumes all day and small footprint but the extra power and bigger implements are very tempting.

Looking back over 16 years of PT425 ownership, I am still satisfied with my purchase and have never regretted the size.... I needed to be able to haul it on the back of my pickup truck until we bought a trailer, and go in and out of 4' gates both at home, and at the Little League park and my wife's church/school grounds. I also have a strong dislike for diesels, probably due to working on junky diesel powered airport equipment in cold temps for 6 years, fighting to get them running, and several gelled fuel incidents due to neglect by the operators. Heck, even our first tractor, an IH2500b tractor loader, 50PTOhp, full cab and about 8000# weight was a 4 cylinder gas engine. With that said, if I had larger chores to do, I'd seriously consider stepping up to the 1430 based on my positive experiences with the 425. :thumbsup:

Impulse · May 11, 2017

I got the utility grapple and the 4-in-1 bucket. Went through the same back-n-forth over grapple bucket and 4-in-1. I just had them add teeth to the 4-in-1 and was good to go. I've only had them about a month but so far happy with both. I also got the light material bucket at Moss's recommendation, very happy with that too!

BobRip · May 11, 2017

You have chosen your attachments well. Those are very useful and effective attachments.

SpringHollow · May 11, 2017

I much prefer diesels vs gas engines other than the cold starting.

Ken

MossRoad · May 11, 2017

Yeah, if they'd put a little Kubota diesel in something the 400 series size, I'd seriously consider it.

agjones · May 15, 2017

I've got a few years of experience with my pt425 now....it's got 300h as a diesel (Kubota d662)...Awesome.

I build trail, which is best thought of as half a road... So that crown (cross slope for me) is a tough function.

First, I definitely recommend the 4n1 with teeth, it's a well made tool with a lot of uses. (I'll get back to that...) And the utility grapple, which is possibly pt's best kept secret.

Also, I can say that the traction description, given on the prior page of posts, is dead on... Sideways, grass, mud, uneven ground better traction than any other wheeled utility machine....but by design loses traction (pushing) before you bend something (mostly).

I've tried some tricks and antics to achieve crown and cross-slope, the weight and oscillation of the machine almost make it impossible to achieve....put another way the machine flexibility makes dozing hard.

Some examples I've tried (no lectures please):
letting some air out on one side. Effect, floating tilt-ish in the box blade, 4n1. The oscillating motion really is just compounded by the slack in the tires

Pulling a rut slightly below final grade w trencher or mini hoe, placing one side's wheels lower then planing backward with the open 4n1. Effect, this actually works pretty well for me in cooperative soil.

With a tractor and front end loader or pt with a tooth bucket you could replicate this by making small steps (if you viewed a cross section) from shoulder to crown. You're then pulling the plane you want (the difference in the rise of your steps) crown to shoulder by having one side lower and shaving with the 4n1. It eliminates the steps and there's no grooves. It's a lot of work and requires a lot of string(level) or really good consistent slope perception.

Finally, using a soil conditioner (aka power rake and the 4n1 to adapt the method above works really well saves a ton of time. You just adjust the bite depth of the tool between strips. I've used this prepping ground to be asphalt covered as a greenway (paved path)

So those are things that got my task done... Adapt, overcome style, which may work for 400'. But when it came time to repeat the effects, because the customer was pleased... I found a used struck magnatrac mh5000 with a six way blade.

I considered a tilt-tach for a mini skidsteer, 1500 on ebay (7diamond) and the maker is happy to attach a pt qa plate... But when it comes down to it, moving earth in a sheared plane, especially with efficiency, consistency and tilt requires a different method of applying power to ground, both in terms of work and traction. Mh5000 right tool for the task.

That little dozer is in the final stages of being fitted with pt425 loader arms... Pto and all. I'll post pics in a new thread....I'm often near Tazewell.

Frank Sorbello · May 15, 2017

Agjones, am I reading that right? you have a PT425 with a Kubota diesel. I would love to see pictures of it when you have the time.

Thanks
Frank

woodlandfarms · May 15, 2017

I just looked up that engine on youtube. Looks like it could fit to me (Having never seen a 425 in real life so take that for what it is). Not sure how you work out the cooling, I guess the radiator is in the back but man, the prices on those engines are relatively cheap...

agjones · May 16, 2017

Yes I put some pics up last year...it's tight. Real tight... But I can reach the oil fill, filter, drain and radiator same. The radiator is in the back. Cools fine...keep the debris out of the the fins with a screen if you mow.

The engine is cheap on its own... But total, I find it cheaper to buy retired fairway mowers... Just got one w/ a 33hp Kubota in it....babied for 2000h....tons of bonus hydraulics, seat upgrade etc.

woodlandfarms · May 16, 2017

OK, you got me SUPER intrigued on the Fairway mower. I am looking to improve the cut on my property. was thinking a flail but for the price of a new flail I can buy a well maintained but used fairway mower. How are they on moderate slopes? Uneven ground? love any insight you would be willing to share on this type of machine. It is for the wife.... She loves to mow but we are mowing around 5 acres of grass these days (I am mowing the rest of the 15 or so with my brush hog)