430 Loader STILL not right.

JATO_RaT · Jun 11, 2003

Oh, hmm thats a different animal altogether. How's the lift and curl capacity? I know you don't really have anything to compare to, but it's almost as if the plumbing is not right. You mention once you hit the end of the loader lift cylinder, theres no more activity with the bucket cylinder. It certainly does not seem to be a a hydraulic level problem, its has to be soley in the loader control valve or if your pressure relief is separate from that, possibly there. I'd be curious as to what the pressure is. It's always good to have a gauge for future testing and adjustment of the relief pressure. It's amazing what a couple hundred pounds can mean in lift capacity. I'll be looking into one for mine if I can get the dealer to tell me where best to take the measurement from. Rat...

rockyridgefarm · Jun 12, 2003

My dealer sent me the Predelivery instructions for the loader. I think I found a "gotcha". The 430 Loader has an Orifice that has to be removed from the green line; when used on 43x0/44x0 applications.

"Lift circuit will not function properly with orifice in place"

We'll See!

prosperity · Jun 12, 2003

That would be great if its a simple solution like that!
Looking forward to hearing if this solves it.

rockyridgefarm · Jun 12, 2003

Well when I got home I raced back there and popped that fitting off.

No orifice,

I checked the other three; just in case. None there, either,

I checked things again. Heres the symptoms:

Any function works best partly "off" The masts raise beat at 8:00

The bucket curls best at 8:00

The bucket won't dump up high

The bucket wont curl or dump down low

there is a lot of noise from the draft link filter area.

Oh well /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Anonymous Poster · Jun 12, 2003

OK, you have to move the joystick diagonally to get the best movement of the loader or the bucket. When you do this, it may be allowing the oil coming out of the affected cylinders to find a different path back into the tractor or it may be actually moving the bucket or the boom depending on whether you are curling / dumping or raising / lowering. Kind of like it would say if you were trying to raise the boom and curl the bucket at the same time.

I guess what I'm saying is that the oil from the valve or one of the hoses is blocked from getting back into the tractor. Since the oil is not compressible, it has to go somewhere, so it takes the path of least resistance offered at the 8:00 position and curls the bucket or raises the boom.

Check your quick connects carefully, with the tractor turned off and the bucket flat on the ground (no pressure in the lines) bump each check ball in the quick connects against a piece of wood or brass to make sure none of them are stuck. Do this with the male and female ends, all of the check balls should have the same amount of spring pressure and none should be harder to press than any other.

The check balls oppose each other when you connect the fittings and if one is stuck, it could cause your problem.

The other possibility that comes to mind would be that possibly the pressure and tank lines that come from the tractor and connect to the loader valve are reversed which would cause weird things to happen /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif.

This is a puzzle, but I'm sure with all the TBN help, we can figure it out /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

JATO_RaT · Jun 12, 2003

Does the lift and curl seem to have much power. Can you easily lift the tractors front end off the ground with either bucket dump or loader drop? Since things move I'm thinking that your valve is working but why it would stop is another story. The noise from the rear would be an obvious concern. I wish I could help you, but its something that isn't making a lot of sense logically. The first thing I thought was that you had a bucket curl and loader lift line crossed. I just removed my neighbors loader on his JD 790 and while one side of the hoses were color coded, the other half was not. I just told him, green and yellow go on the bottom, the unidentified go on top. If dumps when it should retract, switch the yellow for green. If it lifts when it should drop, switch the 2 blacks. Now if the yellow was mixed with a black, you could have an issue. Both some lift and some bucket curl or dump with one movement. Let us know, you have us curious, Rat...

rockyridgefarm · Jun 13, 2003

( I'm saying is that the oil from the valve or one of the hoses is blocked from getting back into the tractor. Since the oil is not compressible, it has to go somewhere, so it takes the path of least resistance offered at the 8:00 position and curls the bucket or raises the boom.
)

Sounds reasonable! I will check things along those lines. I am thinking I will try the check nalves and then dissasemble the hose assembly.

rockyridgefarm · Jun 13, 2003

( Can you easily lift the tractors front end off the ground with either bucket dump or loader drop? )

Nope. Strictly at 2:00

( JD 790 and while one side of the hoses were color coded, the other half was not)

All color coded here. The functions all go the correct actions. If I swap lines, the actions swap. I do want to check closely to isolate that the problem is in the loader, not the valve (I believe it is...)

BTW the dealer is happy to solve the problem. But I am OK trying to solve it myself. When they aren't quite so busy, I'll get them on it, if I haven't figured it out. They still might drop by if they are in my area. I don't want anyone to think they are leaving me high and dry...

_RaT_ · Jun 13, 2003

Yeah I knew the dealer would take care of it, it's the "getting it there" issue. That would be nice if they could stop by your place. They certainly seemed god about swapping loaders with you. The situation is one that just begs for curious minds to think about. Problem is, I can't remember at all what any of the setup looks like. Good luck, Rat

prosperity · Jun 13, 2003

( The situation is one that just begs for curious minds to think about.)

I have to agree. I work with loaders/heavy equipment every day. Throughout the day I think about Mike's problem now and then. There has to be a reasonable/simple solution. I think Mike is taking the right troubleshooting steps, and what great help he's been getting here. We will all get an education from this one.

rockyridgefarm · Jun 13, 2003

Its FIXED!!!!!

/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

timb · Jun 13, 2003

So after following this tread all this time what was the magic bullet? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

rockyridgefarm · Jun 13, 2003

430 Loader NOW right!!

Thank you all! It is 1000% improved! Smooth, graceful, powerful. What it was meant to be!

Used it tonite to put a dropped baby bird back in its house. (no kidding...)

Thanks!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

JerryG · Jun 13, 2003

Re: 430 Loader NOW right!!

Mike,
You know, I don't think that I live very far from you. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

prosperity · Jun 14, 2003

( Its FIXED!!)

C'mon Mike - the suspense is killing us!

rockyridgefarm · Jun 14, 2003

Re: 430 Loader NOW right!!

Ok, here it is...

When I picked up the loader, the tech gave me some pointers to watch out for.

When things went awry, I checked the hydro level; it was low, so I topped it off, and things got better. It acted like a bubble in there, so I kept cycling it.

Still it wasn't right. But each time I used it it seemed to get a little better.

I tried switching the lines (everyone kept saying the lines are crossed.) I only got worse. Besides all the functions went in the right directions, just were quirky.

My break came when I found out about an orifice used in my loader for the 4210, which has lower hydraulics. No orifice. I broke open every connector to be sure. The loader worked BETTER. But not right. Some break!

WOW! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

In a last ditch effort I tried evey possible hose swap.

I guess I had never swapped the red and black lines.

That would be Head End Bucket for Rod End Lift.

OK, so I;m an I-D-I-O-T

You all were right.

Bye.

Anonymous Poster · Jun 14, 2003

Re: 430 Loader NOW right!!

Congrats on sticking with it. Better than the red face when the tech has to show you the hoses are wrong /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
And I can file the experience you had in my "one more thing to check" mental list.

Shari

Chief · Jun 14, 2003

Re: 430 Loader NOW right!!

I could see me making the same mistake. I will keep your experience in mind if I ever remove my loader.

rockyridgefarm · Jun 14, 2003

Re: 430 Loader NOW right!!

( Better than the red face when the tech has to show you the hoses are wrong )

At least we'd both be red - he's the one who mis-plumbed it... /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I kept thinking SOMETHING would go backwards if they were crossed.

Casimir · Jun 14, 2003

Re: 430 Loader NOW right!!

( I guess I had never swapped the red and black lines. )

I thought those went to the positive and negative poles on the battery /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif -- does the starter turn backwards now?????

Congrats. Funny how easy it is to overlook something simple /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif.