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4300 hst v 3010 hst
- Thread starter Anonymous Poster
- Start date
- Views: 5009
JATO_RaT
Veteran Member
John, why can't JD build its own direct or indirect injected diesel instead of relying on a 3rd party vendor. They make such great diesels for their larger tractors? While Yanmar makes a decent diesel, ever try the 5 cylinder diesels from Kubota. Direct or indirect, Yanmar can't touch em. Rat...
Snell
Silver Member
<font color=blue>I don't agree, however, that oil is being pumped with the hydrostatic controls in neutral.</font color=blue>
All hydros have a charge pump of one type or another. What this does is create oil pressure to the motor that actually drives the wheels. Even when the tractor is in neutral, the oil is creating pressure so that the tractor will move out of neutral at the touch of the pedal. The small tolerance creates a restriction for the oil (especially in cold weather) which in turn draws a lot of horsepower from the engine. The clutch disengages everything so that the hp drop does not occur. The charge pump does have a relief valve but to develop enough pressure to crack the relief valve, you have already dropped the horsepower. This is why hydro's run at about 75% efficiency while gear drive are around 88%... a trade off - convenience vs straight power.
All hydros have a charge pump of one type or another. What this does is create oil pressure to the motor that actually drives the wheels. Even when the tractor is in neutral, the oil is creating pressure so that the tractor will move out of neutral at the touch of the pedal. The small tolerance creates a restriction for the oil (especially in cold weather) which in turn draws a lot of horsepower from the engine. The clutch disengages everything so that the hp drop does not occur. The charge pump does have a relief valve but to develop enough pressure to crack the relief valve, you have already dropped the horsepower. This is why hydro's run at about 75% efficiency while gear drive are around 88%... a trade off - convenience vs straight power.
patton
Member
On the 5000 20 series, the operator presence system is just a buzzer. I wonder if it is because the tractor is bigger (one would have to "walk" arround to get to the PTO shaft), or because they feel the average user experience level is higher. I've had my 1050 PTO going before w/o knowing it. A buzzer would alert me before I got to the hitch.
Pat
Pat
toddler
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2001
- Messages
- 407
- Location
- North Carolina, USA
- Tractor
- Previously: Kubota B2710. Now Deere 3520
Since the JD owners here don't want to bite, I'll have to disagree with you Rat,
Yanmar diesels are in the same league as Kubota. If your engine dies on the tractor, you walk home. If it dies on your boat, and a storms coming....
Ever check what diesels they put in Grand Banks trawlers. Grand Banks doesn't skimp anywhere. If the engineers and owners trust a single Yanmar to keep them out of harms way, it's tough for me as a Kubota owner to say anything bad about them. All I'm betting on my Kubota engine is that I can get my work done. People betting lives on somethings reliability tend to check that item's reliability fairly carefull, so if you want a positive review of yanmars, talk to the marine engineers.
Both companies make great engines. And for all intents and purposes, JD owns quite a stake in Yanmar, if not a controlling interest. (Anyone know how much??)
Todd
Yanmar diesels are in the same league as Kubota. If your engine dies on the tractor, you walk home. If it dies on your boat, and a storms coming....
Ever check what diesels they put in Grand Banks trawlers. Grand Banks doesn't skimp anywhere. If the engineers and owners trust a single Yanmar to keep them out of harms way, it's tough for me as a Kubota owner to say anything bad about them. All I'm betting on my Kubota engine is that I can get my work done. People betting lives on somethings reliability tend to check that item's reliability fairly carefull, so if you want a positive review of yanmars, talk to the marine engineers.
Both companies make great engines. And for all intents and purposes, JD owns quite a stake in Yanmar, if not a controlling interest. (Anyone know how much??)
Todd
Mike_S
Silver Member
Knight--to run the rear PTO without being in the seat on a JD4300 or 4400 HST, all that is necessary is to engage the parking brake enough that the brake light shows on the dash, push down the PTO selector so that just the rear PTO will engage and then engage the rear PRO by pushing the yellow PTO engagement lever forward. Mike S.
Mike_S
Silver Member
knight9--to operate the rear PTO while off of the seat, you first engage the parking brake enough for the parking brake light to show on the dash. Push the yellow PTO selector button all of the way down so the mid PTO does not engage. Start the rear PTO by pushing the PTO engaging lever forward and voila--the rear PTO is running without you being in the seat on the 4300 or 4400HST Deeres. On my 955, it was necessary to lift up the seat and pull up on the safety switch, but this is not necessary on the 4300 or 4400 HSTs. Mike S.
JATO_RaT
Veteran Member
Todd, I am aware of the presence Yanmar has in marine engines and know that they build great engines never intended to portray that. Our old sailboat had one and while reliable, stunk and was one noisy motor but always started. Would I have felt less secure if it were a comparable Kubota? no. If ones life is what determines which engine to buy we would all have Pratt & Whitney or GE jet engines in out tractors and boats. Caterpillar builds engines for D10's and they also supply them for Ford trucks. Point is, they do make engines for some very different applications. The Yanmars used in the 4000 series of John Deere tractors are very good (although the one in the 4700 is having various owners in a quandry as to its "running backwards problem") I would have no issues owning a Yanmar over the Kubotas, but must also add that the issues of indirect vs direct vs glow plugs vs grid heater are FLUFF. The 5 cylinder Kubota I use has been regarded by Kubota dealers as perhaps their finest diesel and I agree. Problem is, its a bit pricey. All in all, the diesels made today are great. I recall that several years ago it was only the Kubota diesel that could pass the CARB (California Air Resources Board) without a catalytic converter. That could very well have changed today. With higher pump pressures, ETVS indirect pre-chambers, less sulfur diesel formulations, diesels are running cleaner then ever. However, be aware that I know here in California, "Soot Traps" are coming for all diesels and I suspect the rest of the nation will follow. From what I have read in local papers, they will cost alot. They will be based on displacement. Estimates range from $1000 for smaller diesels to $10,000 for large diesels. Best of enjoyment with your tractor, Rat...
dmccarty
Super Star Member
Rat,
Are the soot traps on new vehicles only or is Kalifornia going to require ALL oil burners to install these thangs?
I've been pricing new trucks and they are already outrageously expensive. Throwing another $1,000 on top is really painful...
Regarding the 4700, the backward running engine was only on HST models. I was at my dealer Friday. I was going to ask him if he had heard of such a thing but he had people standing around waiting to talk to him so I got what I needed and let him make some money... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Later...
Dan.
Are the soot traps on new vehicles only or is Kalifornia going to require ALL oil burners to install these thangs?
I've been pricing new trucks and they are already outrageously expensive. Throwing another $1,000 on top is really painful...
Regarding the 4700, the backward running engine was only on HST models. I was at my dealer Friday. I was going to ask him if he had heard of such a thing but he had people standing around waiting to talk to him so I got what I needed and let him make some money... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Later...
Dan.
JATO_RaT
Veteran Member
Dan, that is what is confusing to me. It would seem that a "solid connection" to the motor would be required to force the diesel into reverse. My 2120 was a 12X12 gear tractor. I would be interested in purchasing the HST 4700. Let me know if you hear anything. As far as the soot traps. I'm not sure if it will be just for trucks that make up the majority of users or all diesels. Its down the road as in 2004 or 2006 as I recall. It was to be retroactive so even the old diesels will be getting them. I've seen where the semi-trucks can expect to pay up to 10,000 dollars for a trap. Rat...
