4530 is sick and needs doctor

[geared4play]

Thanks everyone for your remarks. The basics is what is on the agenda for this weekend weather permitting. I will be draining the fuel tank, changing fuel filters, checking for clogged fuel lines or trash in fuel tank etc. Im skeptical of fuel filters needing replacing at 43 hrs but it wont hurt and has been known to happen from what I致e read so far.

Just to clarify myself the tractor was sputtering the first time I put it to work with only 5 hrs but being a novice to tractors I thought this was normal. But now at 43 hrs the problem is Worse and I am now getting power loss I know this is not normal By reading several posts and speaking with my out of state dealer, I believe we have nailed down the problem to be the injection timing. The issue is getting and or waiting for my local dealer to service the tractor. As mentioned before I will do the basics and see if that helps and in the meantime I値l wait out the 3-4 weeks and see if my local dealer can service my tractor at that time, Then I値l see where to go from there. Due to work deadlines and other obligations I can not afford on going on a 700 Mile Road trip at this time. Maybe in about 4 months.

Dave, I don稚 remember the exact figures but I do know after calculating everything and subtracting the difference I saved around $2000.00. Yes that included sales tax. I don稚 know any of the legality of avoiding any tax. All I know is I filled out the online credit app. The out of state dealer sent me papers to sign and FedEx back with a check for 800.00 down + 450 shipping . Once papers and check were sent. Dealer paid half of shipping costs. $500.00?$950 total shipping) And tractor was delivered. I do believe that because I am not a resident of the state of which I purchased the unit from I was not charged state sales tax. One other thing my local dealer wanted 10 % down and was charging me around $700 or $800 for something called freight or crate charge.. Yes the out of state dealer is also very close to the distribution point. (Mahindra production factory)

I was leaning on purchasing with my local dealer but I just didn稚 like his attitude or personality I didn稚 feel comfortable with the local dealer. Then when I went online and saw a few websites and actually applied for the 4530 and got the figures back.. well that just pushed me over to the out of state dealer. It痴 my opinion that because Mahindra has only one dealer in my state, My local dealer has the upper hand in his pricing of his units and parts. No competition for service and pricing. After dealing with my local dealer I started looking at other brands of tractors but I guess I had my mind set on the Mahindra I知 wondering if I made mistake.
The other dealers were friendly and I got a good vibe with them. But hard headed that I am I wanted a Mahindra so started I looking online and near states. Wife is now giving me an earful Telling me the dreaded I told you so

Dave you mentioned if I thought my Out of state dealer was eager to ship into another dealers area regardless off service ramifications, well I had several correspondence via e-mail and telephone and I am currently in communication with them via email. Sales person was very pleasant and not pushy. The conversation did come up of why I was purchasing from them being that they are over 700 miles away. I told him what I知 telling you all customer service and of course pricing.. I did tell him what the local dealer told me about not honoring warranty if I bought else where he told me that he cant do that. Any Mahindra dealer Should honor the warranty or there dealership could be in Jeopardy. One other thing I don稚 know what basics dealers check for before delivery of a tractor... But as far as the timing, Could a big difference in Altitude from out state to my location be the Problem?

 

[jwcinpk]

I doubt seriously it's the fuel and I bet given the problem that Mahindra has had with KSBs and injection timing very few dealers will tell you it's anything else. I have a brand new (16hrs) 7010 doing the same thing. I know what the problem is and the dealer does too and is sending someone to fix it. Others suggested to me it's the fuel, but if it was the fuel every tractor my dealer sold would be doing this since it was filled from his tank. Mine runs fine until it warms up good and then the white smoke rolls and it sputters like crazy.

It's sad that you're caught in a peeing contest between dealers!

 

[DavesTractor]

Dave, I don稚 remember the exact figures but I do know after calculating everything and subtracting the difference I saved around $2000.00. Yes that included sales tax. I don稚 know any of the legality of avoiding any tax. All I know is I filled out the online credit app. The out of state dealer sent me papers to sign and FedEx back with a check for 800.00 down + 450 shipping . Once papers and check were sent. Dealer paid half of shipping costs. $500.00?$950 total shipping) And tractor was delivered. I do believe that because I am not a resident of the state of which I purchased the unit from I was not charged state sales tax. ...Yes the out of state dealer is also very close to the distribution point. (Mahindra production factory)

I was leaning on purchasing with my local dealer but I just didn稚 like his attitude or personality I didn稚 feel comfortable with the local dealer. ..... My local dealer has the upper hand in his pricing of his units and parts. ...Wife is now giving me an earful Telling me the dreaded I told you so

Dave you mentioned if I thought my Out of state dealer was eager to ship into another dealers area regardless off service ramifications, well I had several correspondence via e-mail and telephone and I am currently in communication with them via email. Sales person was very pleasant and not pushy. ...I did tell him what the local dealer told me about not honoring warranty if I bought else where he told me that he cant do that. Any Mahindra dealer Should honor the warranty or there dealership could be in Jeopardy. One other thing I don稚 know what basics dealers check for before delivery of a tractor... But as far as the timing, Could a big difference in Altitude from out state to my location be the Problem?

Thanks for the very thorough reply. Assuming sales tax of 7.5% (just guessing) and a purchase of around $20K, $1500 of your $2000 savings was in avoided tax. So your local dealer was only $500 higher, $350 due to inbound freight and $150 due to the fact that he probably sets the timing and checks the KSB etc before he delivers. So the local dealer was actually within pennies of the out of state dealer's price, except for tax. That certainly doesn't sound like he was trying to hold you up, and you probably owe the tax. Avoiding tax is great, evading tax is another story altogether. Depending on the state, you could have done either.

Generally the down payment is around 10%, but less if there is no sales tax as the tax is financed as well. Finance companies will finance a maximum amount based on dealers costs set as a percentage. So if you pay tax, your minimum down payment will be higher, generally by the cost of tax. So if your down was $450 in an out of state purchase and the tax was $1500, you would expect to pay $1950 down with tax. The out of state dealer has no obligation to collect sales tax for New Mexico, however you almost certainly owe it. At least that is how it is in California. You can either pay it directly to the Board of Equalization in California or it is mandatory to report on the first page of the state income tax each year. NM may be different.

So I suspect your local dealer may be bitter with the distant dealer, and he was actually making the same profit within $100 probably, but he could not sell it to you with no tax. So he really does not want to be the distant dealers service department to further encourage sales into his area. You see, there is no profit in warranty work. We do get paid back, less service calls and less transportation. It is a fair warranty process for the selling dealer, but not a profit center.

Of course if the local dealer has an attitude, he does not deserve your business, but do think about the entire picture. Now he could step up and give you exceptional service and try to win your future business, there would be nothing wrong with that. However most buyers that shop out of state to avoid tax can't be won over by great service, they are generally price driven only.

You certainly sound like a good guy, and I feel bad that you may be caught between two dealers having a squabble. I will reiterate that I am responding to you based on an oft repeated situation in many states with many brands, not based soley on your situation. This is a forum for discussion and this is an interesting subject.

And yes, the local dealer is obligated to work on your tractor due to his contract, but it will be awkward and you will be behind his paying customers.

 

[mrgoodwrenchman]

Dave

I just read your reply to the 4530,s problem and I amazed at your hard line response. I am a parts manager at a large GM dealership and we love to work on cars and trucks that were not purchased from us, we see it as a opportunity to earn their business and then service their vehicle for a long time. It seems like this has touched a nerve for you. I was surprised that you attacked him several times about the fact that he did not pay sales tax. I have been impressed with how you handle yourself on this board with all the free advise you give and the fact you have just won a award for being a great dealer. I hope you were having a bad day . I hope his local dealer will step up and fix his tractor like he should.

 

[dynasim]

A dealer making the assertion making enough time in their schedule for adjusting the timing on a fuel pump takes three weeks(maybe) is obnoxious. One could make that assertion for a major repair(splitting a tractor), but not that.

A dealer that would make such an assertion is a liar. One should not deal with liars, even if they are local, as they will inevitably defraud you.

Furthermore, this guy is a paying customer. He bought insurance(the warranty) from Mahindra. It is unlikely that the dealer would "do it for free", nor should he.

Chris

 

[DavesTractor]

Dave

I just read your reply to the 4530,s problem and I amazed at your hard line response. I am a parts manager at a large GM dealership and we love to work on cars and trucks that were not purchased from us, we see it as a opportunity to earn their business and then service their vehicle for a long time. It seems like this has touched a nerve for you. I was surprised that you attacked him several times about the fact that he did not pay sales tax. I have been impressed with how you handle yourself on this board with all the free advise you give and the fact you have just won a award for being a great dealer. I hope you were having a bad day . I hope his local dealer will step up and fix his tractor like he should.

Yes we did win an award recently, and we take service very seriously. It is our focus. I think the only option for the local dealer is to fix the tractor and to do it promptly. I should have stated that up front. He is in a no win situation to do otherwise. There is no other counsel that I could give the dealer if I were talking to him. So you know my clear position.

Let me explain, then apologize for my other line of questions. I have not attacked the poster, in fact he seems like a real good guy, but I have asked him questions that really do not help him solve his problem. The tractor is bought, he made his decision and we must go on from here. My point is really about an unlevel playing field due to sales tax. I guess that is why I brought it up initially as a question then responded once it was answered. That is not an attack, yet it was off subject. You see, both dealers were almost the same price on the tractor itself. It is just a real common deal with tractors, but not with cars. On a car it does not matter where you purchase, because when they are registered in the state you live, you are compelled by more than your conscience to pay use tax which is equal to sales tax. So cars and tractors are a different animal in that respect.

I was actually more curious about the reason for the long distance purchase and was trying to see why the local dealer was behaving in that manner. None of us believe he is weeks behind and can't adjust the timing, so we have more than that going on, and I was trying to descern "the rest of the story" as Paul Harvey would say. I think my error was in making a point about cross border sales when the topic was really about fixing his tractor. For that I apologize. It might be a topic for a different thread, but I really should have left it out of this one!

 

[shvl73]

I can't see how Dave's replies can be seen as an attack. His input here illuminates some issues dealers face and cannot resolve (state tax, freight). The original poster was encouraged to consider these things while he addressed the issue that the local dealer should fix it sooner rather than later.

 

[bradyky]

Many companies now charge equalized freight so that the dealer that lives next to the distribution pays the same as the dealer that is 2000 miles from that point. Mahindra will eventually have to go that route to help level the playing field.

 

[AGRIMAN]

I would start by check for water in the fuel (always start simple) but it does sound like the KSB is not fully operating.


The KSB adjust the pump timing which allows the unit to start without excessive white smoke at start up. It's a common problem with the older style tier II engines. After the unit comes up to operating temp The KSB should readjust the timing for a smoother high idle and a little HP gain.



It's a little confusing way after 20 min you start to see the white smoke. This could be the water or it maybe that the KSB is operation properly, but not adjusted properly.


The real cause is that now everyone is trying to get every last drop of HP they can out of these old tier I engines and meet tier II emissions. They do this by playing with the pump timing.



Tier III will be here by the end 2008 and hopefully some of this old issues will be resolved

 

[RedRiver]

Yep, depending on what state you are in they will more than likely be knocking on your door with their hand out before too long.

As far as your problem I think everyone else has already addressed the possible issues. Either KSB Timer or timing needs adjusted depends on when the white smoke starts.....at the time of startup or 20 min. after it has been running. Since the wait it going to be a while I would go ahead and try to change the fuel filters like suggested above. I do however feel that it was a bit ugly for your local dealer to tell you they would not service your tractor if bought elsewhere. I do feel where they are coming from though, it's hard to beat a dealers price that has less freight costs than you do, but I would never tell a customer I wouldn't service their tractor.

Please keep us updated!