4530 is sick and needs doctor
- Thread starter geared4play
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My thoughts opinion on this:
I would not operate the tractor there is a possibility of engine damage. I would pay a personal visit to the Service Manager at the dealership -- no phone call--and discuss with him/her about providing warranty service to my tractor. If he/she did not seem too receptive to this I would ask how much they would charge to repair/correct the things I had found wrong with the unit. ( Problems in my opinion the selling dealer should have corrected prior to delivery) I would then schedule a date for repairs, pay the repair bill and submit a bill to Mahindra for re-imbursement. I would also at the same time provide a copy of the warranty provided by Mahindra, the repair bill and date of purchase to the State Attorneys General Office asking for there assistance and help on recovery of funds paid for warranty repair. Most states have a provision where they will stop a Manufacture/Company from selling a product within the state if they fail to provide warranty service on products already sold. Good luck.
I would not operate the tractor there is a possibility of engine damage. I would pay a personal visit to the Service Manager at the dealership -- no phone call--and discuss with him/her about providing warranty service to my tractor. If he/she did not seem too receptive to this I would ask how much they would charge to repair/correct the things I had found wrong with the unit. ( Problems in my opinion the selling dealer should have corrected prior to delivery) I would then schedule a date for repairs, pay the repair bill and submit a bill to Mahindra for re-imbursement. I would also at the same time provide a copy of the warranty provided by Mahindra, the repair bill and date of purchase to the State Attorneys General Office asking for there assistance and help on recovery of funds paid for warranty repair. Most states have a provision where they will stop a Manufacture/Company from selling a product within the state if they fail to provide warranty service on products already sold. Good luck.
I am just a wondering why this problem is so common that all dealers know about it and most Mahindra owners know about it???? Please don't take this as an attack, I think Mahindra makes fine machines but you think a problem so common would be curred at the factory!
DavesTractor
Elite Member
gamble77 said:
Gamble, your assumption that it is "so common" is actually not the case. Also, the idea that it is brand specific is not true. I talked to a group of Kubota dealers recently and the same topic was one of their major concerns. Close by us we had a rogue JD dealer (since purchased by another larger JD dealership
) and my local JD dealer spoke to me about the same topic when we were neighbors at a local show. I will say that JD, Kubota and New Holland have been at it longer and have had more time to instill in their dealers the need to give excellent service regardless. It is something that Mahindra has as a focus right now, we want exceptional service from every dealer in every case. If a dealer has an issue with another dealer, in theory the customer shouldn't be able to tell. In the vast majority of cases, our dealers do a fantastic job.Dave, I love the rolled eyes of the "larger JD dealership"...I have been on both sides of the fence, we are now up to 14 stores, and this is by far the best side of the fence. Economies of scale and inventory selection make it all worth while...all while being able to provide the customer better service. Now the issue of how Deere is going about this at certain dealerships I do not agree with but it is working none-the-less.
Anyway, I just remember hearing about this issue several times in the past and you are probably right I shouldn't say this is "so common" as I am not a dealer for the machines I shouldn't make such assumptions. I guess it is like the cracking of the Kioti loaders, when people have issues with their machines they come to boards like this so the problem may seem much more wide spread then it actually is...
Anyway, I just remember hearing about this issue several times in the past and you are probably right I shouldn't say this is "so common" as I am not a dealer for the machines I shouldn't make such assumptions. I guess it is like the cracking of the Kioti loaders, when people have issues with their machines they come to boards like this so the problem may seem much more wide spread then it actually is...
AGRIMAN
Platinum Member
I wouldn't call it a epidemic but I have seen issue of injector pump timing across all the major brands. The problem is more or so isolated to specific models within each brand. The issue is common on units that are equipped with the older tier I engines that were basically modified to meet tier II emission. They were able to meet tier II specs by doing a few things like adjusting the injection pump timing and internal breather systems, but these older engines can only be taken so far. With the increasing emission standards the engine manufactures are going to have to develop newer style engines with more efficient combustion chamber and electronic injection system which cost major money to develop.
If you look at the problem as it related to the different brands one thing becomes apparent. The problem is mostly related to the economy or low cost units. Now, I'm not trying to say that these are junk. Dollar for Dollar most of these units offer you the best value for your buying dollar, but the manufactures of this units rely on older tried and true technology (low cost) to give you that savings. This is nothing new it's what Kubota and others have been doing for years and now both Deere and New Holland have gotten into the game.
The 03 series Deere. TTA series NH and the Mahindra's have all experienced issues with injection pump timing. All these tractors are built in India within a few hundred miles of one another and all use proven, but older technology in order to give you, the customer a reliable and economical tractor.
No manufacturer knowingly wants to sale a customer a tractor that's not right, but sometimes things may slip through a quality check or develop after a few hours of uses. This is where the dealer comes into play with fast, reliable and friendly service.
Let's face it... the compact tractor market is changing and a large part of that new market is demanding a more economical product and any one wanting a place at the table better offer what they demand.
The manufactures are going to have to start modernizing some of the older parts and when they do the price will currently start to go up also, but at the rate the "upper end" units are rising they will always offer a economical option.
If you look at the problem as it related to the different brands one thing becomes apparent. The problem is mostly related to the economy or low cost units. Now, I'm not trying to say that these are junk. Dollar for Dollar most of these units offer you the best value for your buying dollar, but the manufactures of this units rely on older tried and true technology (low cost) to give you that savings. This is nothing new it's what Kubota and others have been doing for years and now both Deere and New Holland have gotten into the game.
The 03 series Deere. TTA series NH and the Mahindra's have all experienced issues with injection pump timing. All these tractors are built in India within a few hundred miles of one another and all use proven, but older technology in order to give you, the customer a reliable and economical tractor.
No manufacturer knowingly wants to sale a customer a tractor that's not right, but sometimes things may slip through a quality check or develop after a few hours of uses. This is where the dealer comes into play with fast, reliable and friendly service.
Let's face it... the compact tractor market is changing and a large part of that new market is demanding a more economical product and any one wanting a place at the table better offer what they demand.
The manufactures are going to have to start modernizing some of the older parts and when they do the price will currently start to go up also, but at the rate the "upper end" units are rising they will always offer a economical option.
NorCalMatt
Member
"just had the same problem on my new 5525 and the injector timing was retarded."
My, how insensitive of you, flawton.
It's called "mentally challenged" these days.
Sheesh!
(sorry, couldn't help myself. back to hideyhole.)
My, how insensitive of you, flawton.
It's called "mentally challenged" these days.
Sheesh!
(sorry, couldn't help myself. back to hideyhole.)
DavesTractor
Elite Member
Agriman, great contribution to the topic! We just got back from the Mahindra National Dealers Meeting and they had a discussion on Tier 3 and Tier 4 engines. It seems that most of the new Mahindra models 50HP and over will now have a turbo, and of course some sort of exhaust gas recycling. As a result, we will see a cleaner engine, and a little HP gain as well. We've never had the KSB issue with the Mitsubishi built tractors which are 18-32HP.
AGRIMAN
Platinum Member
Thanks... and that's good news. I'm a big fan of turbo's in any application. Hopefully KSB's will become a thing of the past or maybe they can at least make then more reliable.
Some Manufacturers are using what they call a internal ventilation system. Designs vary, but If you look on top of the engine you will notice three things (1) a unusually looking wide flat valve cover.(2) there is no engine blow by tube. (3) a small valve built into the valve cover. The valve senses the crank case pressure (blow by) on the valve train side of the engine and opens which allows the crack case pressure to cross over from the valve train side of the engine to the intake side where is mixes with fresh intake air and is reused.
A slick design, but a WARNING. This design does have a potential problem. If the oil fill location is still housed within the valve cover it's possible for a unsuspecting person to seriously damage the engine by simply changing the oil.
Basically the engineers overlooked/missed this issue. When refilling the crank case with oil (during a oil change) if the dipstick isn't removed to allow proper ventilation of the crack case it's possible for the oil to back up within the valve cover. The pressure from the oil can open the cross over valve which will allow the oil into the intake. The oil will then run down past any open valve (s) and end up on top of a piston(s). Since oil doesn't compress to well, you will end up with a hydraulic lock and a few bent rods.
There have been several case where this has happen. A engine is running perfect. The oil is changed and when trying to start the engine it locks down. They continue turning the key until the engine finally starts, but when it does there is a skip/miss. (compression is off on one or more cylinders as a result of a bent rod)
Another factor that's just as important and probably the biggest cause is the size of the oil container being used and the speed/volume at which the oil is being poured.
If someone is using qt sized containers they are unknowingly prevent the problem just by the extra time it takes to empty and change containers which allows the oil time to flow down, but if they are using a 2 1/2 gallon container with a long funnel they are unknowingly making the problem worse by the extra volume of the container in conjunction with the extra height of the funnel and the tendency to pour the oil in fast which doesn't allow time for the oil to flow down, cause it to back up inside the valve cover. High volume automatic dispensers are a risk also.
The best advise is to make sure the dipstick is pulled out in order to ventilate the crank case and pour the oil in slow.
Most engine manufactures that were affected by this have taken notice of the problem and fixed it by relocating the oil fill to ether the timing cover,oil pan or side of the block.
Some Manufacturers are using what they call a internal ventilation system. Designs vary, but If you look on top of the engine you will notice three things (1) a unusually looking wide flat valve cover.(2) there is no engine blow by tube. (3) a small valve built into the valve cover. The valve senses the crank case pressure (blow by) on the valve train side of the engine and opens which allows the crack case pressure to cross over from the valve train side of the engine to the intake side where is mixes with fresh intake air and is reused.
A slick design, but a WARNING. This design does have a potential problem. If the oil fill location is still housed within the valve cover it's possible for a unsuspecting person to seriously damage the engine by simply changing the oil.
Basically the engineers overlooked/missed this issue. When refilling the crank case with oil (during a oil change) if the dipstick isn't removed to allow proper ventilation of the crack case it's possible for the oil to back up within the valve cover. The pressure from the oil can open the cross over valve which will allow the oil into the intake. The oil will then run down past any open valve (s) and end up on top of a piston(s). Since oil doesn't compress to well, you will end up with a hydraulic lock and a few bent rods.
There have been several case where this has happen. A engine is running perfect. The oil is changed and when trying to start the engine it locks down. They continue turning the key until the engine finally starts, but when it does there is a skip/miss. (compression is off on one or more cylinders as a result of a bent rod)
Another factor that's just as important and probably the biggest cause is the size of the oil container being used and the speed/volume at which the oil is being poured.
If someone is using qt sized containers they are unknowingly prevent the problem just by the extra time it takes to empty and change containers which allows the oil time to flow down, but if they are using a 2 1/2 gallon container with a long funnel they are unknowingly making the problem worse by the extra volume of the container in conjunction with the extra height of the funnel and the tendency to pour the oil in fast which doesn't allow time for the oil to flow down, cause it to back up inside the valve cover. High volume automatic dispensers are a risk also.
The best advise is to make sure the dipstick is pulled out in order to ventilate the crank case and pour the oil in slow.
Most engine manufactures that were affected by this have taken notice of the problem and fixed it by relocating the oil fill to ether the timing cover,oil pan or side of the block.
