4WD and loader work

[ROUSTABOUT]

I was referring to the 3rd differential in trucks comment in post 11

The New Process 203

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Really most people bought a smaller tractor and got 4x4 so it would push and pull like a big one. We have 100+ horse tractors, 4x4, and hardly ever use 4x4 unless it is a straight line pull. Like pulling something out that's stuck. Dozers, dump trucks, log skidders. I mean hardly ever.

 

[MTGreen]

The New Process 203

Chain driven fixed ratio output shafts = not a differential.
Full time vs part time is irrelevant

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Chain driven fixed ratio output shafts = not a differential.
Full time vs part time is irrelevant

203 had a differential, you had to buy an eliminator kit to run 2wd. I have a brand new kit. 205 was a gear drive.

 

[MTGreen]

203 had a differential, you had to buy an eliminator kit to run 2wd. I have a brand new kit. 205 was a gear drive.

You appear to be confusing a full time non-shiftable transfer case with a differential. A differential has an internal mechanism that allows the two output shafts to vary their rotational speed in relation to each other.

An axle type (true) differential allows one output shaft (axle) to variably turn faster/slower than the other to accommodate the longer/shorter arcs that the wheels must traverse when turning.

A 4wd transfer case such as the NP203, NP205, etc. has the input shaft mechanically locked to both output shafts (driveshafts) via chain or gears so for a given input shaft speed, you get exactly one speed on each output shaft in high range and exactly one speed on each in low range. One output shaft speed cannot vary in relation to the other, so it is not a differential.

In the case of most compact tractors where the front wheels are smaller than the rears, the same transfer case principle applies to the drop box portion of the system. The difference is there is a fixed gear multiplication of the front wheel drive speed that is accomplished with a combination of drop box, front axle ring and pinion, and final drive gearing to allow the front tires to turn faster in relation to the rears so they all traverse the same distance over the same time when traveling in a straight line.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

You appear to be confusing a full time non-shiftable transfer case with a differential. A differential has an internal mechanism that allows the two output shafts to vary their rotational speed in relation to each other.

An axle type (true) differential allows one output shaft (axle) to variably turn faster/slower than the other to accommodate the longer/shorter arcs that the wheels must traverse when turning.

A 4wd transfer case such as the NP203, NP205, etc. has the input shaft mechanically locked to both output shafts (driveshafts) via chain or gears so for a given input shaft speed, you get exactly one speed on each output shaft in high range and exactly one speed on each in low range. One output shaft speed cannot vary in relation to the other, so it is not a differential.

In the case of most compact tractors where the front wheels are smaller than the rears, the same transfer case principle applies to the drop box portion of the system. The difference is there is a fixed gear multiplication of the front wheel drive speed that is accomplished with a combination of drop box, front axle ring and pinion, and final drive gearing to allow the front tires to turn faster in relation to the rears so they all traverse the same distance over the same time when traveling in a straight line.

The 203 came with full time hubs, so engaged all the time, like a tractor. 203 had differentials in them. I have maybe 20 of them laying around here right now. Direct coupled and independent configurations. My brothers tractor has high and low range. Rabbit and turtle switch on dash, in addition to high low shifter. 203 shifter positions, low lock, neutral, 2wd high, 4x lock. The rear output of a 203 has a differential in it. A 205:does not. Shift positions low, neutral, 2 hi, 4 hi.

A 203 allows front output and rear output to turn at different speeds because of the differential in the transfer case. So, a 203 system had front differential, mid differential, rear differential. Basically the same as my Subaru Impreza which was all wheel drive, when the 203:was in 2 wd position. I couldn't shift the Subaru T case, it had a viscous coupler in T case, and all was connected, all the time.

 

[Hay Dude]

KISS

If you are turning in 4WD on a hard surface and you feel front tires jumping, you are placing some extra strain on your front axle components and wearing your tires at an accelerated pace. Having a load in the bucket makes it worse. If that is what’s happening, aim your tractor straight into the pile in 4WD to get a more complete scoop, then switch back into 2WD if you need to make a sharp turn.
If you are scooping into a pile on a loose surface, then you can probably stay in 4WD all the time.

I always switch back & forth between 2WD and 4WD to avoid excess tire wear and front driveline strain.

 

[MTGreen]

The 203 came with full time hubs, so engaged all the time, like a tractor. 203 had differentials in them. I have maybe 20 of them laying around here right now. Direct coupled and independent configurations. My brothers tractor has high and low range. Rabbit and turtle switch on dash, in addition to high low shifter. 203 shifter positions, low lock, neutral, 2wd high, 4x lock. The rear output of a 203 has a differential in it. A 205:does not. Shift positions low, neutral, 2 hi, 4 hi.

A 203 allows front output and rear output to turn at different speeds because of the differential in the transfer case. So, a 203 system had front differential, mid differential, rear differential. Basically the same as my Subaru Impreza which was all wheel drive, when the 203:was in 2 wd position. I couldn't shift the Subaru T case, it had a viscous coupler in T case, and all was connected, all the time.

The 203s had a standard transfer case mated to a differential module that can be locked via shifter, so I stand corrected on that point, thanks! So that makes them a selectable AWD/4WD unit depending on whether that differential addon unit is locked.

NP203

www.offroaddesign.com

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

The 203s had a standard transfer case mated to a differential module that can be locked via shifter, so I stand corrected on that point, thanks! So that makes them a selectable AWD/4WD unit depending on whether that differential addon unit is locked.

NP203

www.offroaddesign.com

I honesty think it was a bad idea back then. And, you probably didn't see any that were not already converted over to selectable hubs. I had a nice 75 swb Chevy pickup that was full time. I got better gas mileage with it on a tow bar behind my 75 ford hiboy. I made a few 300 mile trips with it, I know. If I drove the Chevy I had to leave early because if the gas station in Jasper TX was closed, I was sleeping there. I was looking in the mailbox at Christmas hoping I would get a card from Exxon. I'm not knocking GM products, Ford and Dodge were just as bad with the full time system. Let us not even discuss the Jeep Quadratrack.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

In 1974 I bought a pu NEW that had a 203 in it, it never gave problems, and I never converted it.

It was a decent pu but I never really liked it, it was a bit low on power and used too much gas.

SR

 

[dcarman]

I read in the manual for my LX2610 that it's fine to work in 4WD doing loader work, which I have been doing. I watched a video with Tractor Time with Tim and one of the comments was that he should not being doing loader work in 4WD as it's gear on gear drive and its grinding gears when one of the front wheels spins and the other doesn't.

I just want to make sure that I'm not doing anything wrong.


Edit:
I should have been more clear, TTWT was doing similar work as I was, a commenter, not Tim, said that.

Tractor time with Tim, sounds like a TV sitcom! I use my tractors to their max ability all the time. Thats why I have Kubotas. Even I don't break them. If it breaks doing that I will get rid of it and get another. I refuse to have my equipment work me.

 

[Zetorboy]

If you use the front loader to dig or carry stuff, be sure to have a load attached in the back of your machine. Without, you will brakec the front axle! Which have happened to me … only ounce! I did learned the bad way

 

[Todd727]

Plenty of discussion on the MFWD usage. Seems to be covered.

Now, scooping out of a pile; think of it more has shaving a layer of material off of the face of the pile instead of just driving the bucket as deep as you can and then curling and lifting.

 

[BrianSum]

From what I've learned, is don't use 4wd unless you need it, especially on solid pavement. At the least, it tears up your front tires, and it puts wear on your front-wheel drive transmission. And you want to do that why?

 

[Bentrim]

As has been mentioned in a prior posted the difference between four wheel drive and front wheel assist is as follows.
Four wheel drive
1 usually high horsepower
2 All tires same size
3 Cannot disengage
Front wheel assist
1 Usually lower horsepower
2 Front tires smaller
3 Can be mechanical or hydraulic
4 Can be disengaged
5 Mechanical assist is overdriven so it does not "hold up" the rear wheels
Loader work with front wheel assist
1. Must have ballast on back Reason when loader is lifted and weight is transferred to the front the front axle will get traction, if the rear tires slip all force will be applied to the front axle and overload or break it.

Yes I know four wheel drive and front wheel assist is just like brush/bush hog and rotary cutter. Every body is stuck on their names for things. No wonder parts people pull their hair out and get upset when people use names for parts that confuse them.

 

[Bushbunnie]

Well you have to take with a grain of salt when so called experts give advice. I once had a 1959 chev and an "expert" told me I should get rid of it because my engine was going to need replacing, seven years later it was still going strong. In the past two years my B7800 I've used my 4 wheel drive most of the the time.

 

[Bushbunnie]

Well you have to take with a grain of salt when so called experts give advice. I once had a 1959 chev and an "expert" told me I should get rid of it because my engine was going to need replacing, seven years later it was still going strong. In the past two years my B7800 I've used my 4 wheel drive most of the the time.

 

[Bentrim]

There you go calling someone an expert. You do know what an expert is don't you? Remember in math class when you solved for X which was the unknown. a spert is a drip under pressure. So totaled up you are calling them an unknown drip under pressure.

But if you were referring to my post, I can only pass what I have learned from manufacturers and making my living from these that knew better than the manufacturer, as they cried because their machine needed an expensive repair caused by abuse.

 

[TractorTech]

When doing loader work, you want to use 4wd as the weight, and thus traction shifts to that axle.
When you have 2wd, as said before, the weight is off the rear axle and you spin because you have no traction.

 

[JWR]

If you use the front loader to dig or carry stuff, be sure to have a load attached in the back of your machine. Without, you will brakec the front axle! Which have happened to me … only ounce! I did learned the bad way

All of us who own tractors with a FEL use them to "dig and carry stuff." Most have learned that the tractor is better balanced, gets better traction under varied conditions, etc. with some weight on the back and usually keep something (like a bush hog, box blade or other attachment) on the back.

Without that we will break our front axles !!?? Oh balderdash ! Nonsense. Load on the rear will only reduce load on the front axle by a small % -- just do a simple drawing and look at the lever lengths and where the c.g. of the machine is. In general, placing a load on the rear will rarely if ever prevent "breaking" a front axle.

This thread started out with some poor newbie afraid to use his 4WD and now we are worrying him by talking broken axles? Good grief!