One says he needs it on his hilly ground. Mine is 15 to 20% on most of it, and I don't need it. I don't slid or spin, on it and it is kind of sandy to boot. Some times when I get on a real steep little hill it does spin, the I use the dif lock and it come right out of it. I drove on snow and ice most of my life and with 2wd drive, I still would do it with 2wd if I lived there. I think of a fellow I use to work with, he said most of his hunter friends had 4wd on theie trucks, and that when he needed to start worrying with his 2wd, so did they, for they were just about through going also. Maybe he and I were just better drivers, I don't know.
4wd vs. 2wd
- Thread starter farmerpsv
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chrisjbell
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<font color="blue"> One says he needs it on his hilly ground. Mine is 15 to 20% on most of it, and I don't need it. </font>
"Hilly ground" varies by region. My property is almost all on slopes, some of them as steep as 45 degrees (the tractor does not ever go there /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif). My neighbor has a 2WD Ford that he uses to mow his pastures and it works fine, but that is because it isn't a CUT - it is a full sized tractor with all the weight involved. For a smaller, lighter CUT the 4WD becomes much more important, especially when you're dealing with hills.
"Hilly ground" varies by region. My property is almost all on slopes, some of them as steep as 45 degrees (the tractor does not ever go there /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif). My neighbor has a 2WD Ford that he uses to mow his pastures and it works fine, but that is because it isn't a CUT - it is a full sized tractor with all the weight involved. For a smaller, lighter CUT the 4WD becomes much more important, especially when you're dealing with hills.
Soundguy
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I think one of the other guys hit the nail on the head ( normed2001 )
Many of the older larger ag tractors were 2wd.. and worked fine... they had the weight to make the traction available at the rear tires for the huge engine to push. You get a smaller lighter tractor, and the rears just don't offer enough traction.. 4wd helps immensly then.. and when pulling, etc.
Thin of a 4wd tractor of being able to do similar traction based work as a larger 2wd model.
Soundguy
Many of the older larger ag tractors were 2wd.. and worked fine... they had the weight to make the traction available at the rear tires for the huge engine to push. You get a smaller lighter tractor, and the rears just don't offer enough traction.. 4wd helps immensly then.. and when pulling, etc.
Thin of a 4wd tractor of being able to do similar traction based work as a larger 2wd model.
Soundguy
chrisjbell
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Yup, I agree completely with Soundguy. He made the point I was trying to - and much more better /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
Bird
Rest in Peace
Dick, I've heard it said about a lot of things that you don't know what you've missed if you've never had it. Reminds me of a good friend and rancher who had 4 tractors and no front end loader. He had a 3-point Hay King hay spear and a very strong home made carryall and told me about 8 years ago that he'd never had a front end loader and didn't need one. Then about 4 years ago he bought another old tractor with a front end loader. Within 6 months he had told me twice that he just didn't know how he got along without one so long. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif And the same guy has told me he doesn't need a 4WD tractor. Of course he's never used a 4WD tractor and maybe he really doesn't need 4WD since he has so many tractors and I lost count of the number of times he's had to use one tractor to pull another one out of the mud. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Egon
Epic Contributor
I use my tractor on the side of a drumlin. Average degree of slope is 10 % going up to 20 % . When things are wet I don't go uphill unless the four wheel drive is engaged.
Egon
Egon
jinman
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Re: 4wd vs. 2wd, ++Calling John Miller++
In my opinion, if you go with 2WD to save the money, you might as well save a lot of money and skip the 32LA too. I will never, never, never own another tractor with a loader and not have 4WD. I owned one tractor --a Ford 4000 heavy industrial-- with a loader and 2WD. If the bucket was half full, I could not back up a small incline, even on a gravel road. If you plan on using your loader on your new property's hills or maybe putting a bale spear on the front, you will be very happy you went for 4WD. I'm surprised that it is a $6k option. I'd expect it to be more like $4k. Anyway, on a TN with 32LA, you will love having 4WD and be kicking yourself for a long time if you decide against it. If you can't afford the TN with loader, I'd suggest you look at a TC45 which can be had with a loader and 4WD for the $19,500 price. I own a TC45D and actually leave it in 4WD most of the time since my property has a lot of hills and "character."
One other thought... Did your dealer just quote 4WD or does that include Supersteer? Both those options could very easily add $6k, but that much for 4WD alone is close to full retail with no discount, from the info I can find /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif.
In my opinion, if you go with 2WD to save the money, you might as well save a lot of money and skip the 32LA too. I will never, never, never own another tractor with a loader and not have 4WD. I owned one tractor --a Ford 4000 heavy industrial-- with a loader and 2WD. If the bucket was half full, I could not back up a small incline, even on a gravel road. If you plan on using your loader on your new property's hills or maybe putting a bale spear on the front, you will be very happy you went for 4WD. I'm surprised that it is a $6k option. I'd expect it to be more like $4k. Anyway, on a TN with 32LA, you will love having 4WD and be kicking yourself for a long time if you decide against it. If you can't afford the TN with loader, I'd suggest you look at a TC45 which can be had with a loader and 4WD for the $19,500 price. I own a TC45D and actually leave it in 4WD most of the time since my property has a lot of hills and "character."
One other thought... Did your dealer just quote 4WD or does that include Supersteer? Both those options could very easily add $6k, but that much for 4WD alone is close to full retail with no discount, from the info I can find /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif.
cowboydoc
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"Many of the older larger ag tractors were 2wd.. and worked fine... they had the weight to make the traction available at the rear tires for the huge engine to push."
I guess if you have a few acres and you're not doing much that is true. If you're doing any kind of serious farming though there aren't very farmers who would take a 2wd over a 4wd or mfwd tractor. It's like comparing diesel tractors to gas tractors. There really is no comparison. If you do any kind of farm work where you need every bit of your pulling power and/or traction with a tractor, esp. with a loader, then the mfwd or 4wd is a far superior tractor.
I guess if you have a few acres and you're not doing much that is true. If you're doing any kind of serious farming though there aren't very farmers who would take a 2wd over a 4wd or mfwd tractor. It's like comparing diesel tractors to gas tractors. There really is no comparison. If you do any kind of farm work where you need every bit of your pulling power and/or traction with a tractor, esp. with a loader, then the mfwd or 4wd is a far superior tractor.
tdenny
Platinum Member
I would agree heartily with all the folks who are recommending you get the MFWD. I was just outside mowing one of my pastures and it is pretty hilly. I usually always mow it in MFWD due to the aforementioned hills. I had forgotten to engage the MFWD but quickly noticed that when going down the hill the tractor tended to just take off (almost slide down the hill) on me. As soon as I engaged the MFWD no more problems occurred. The trick for me is remembering to disengage it once I get back on the driveway (asphalt). Memory is the shortest thing on me. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Get the MFWD you'll not regret it.
Rch
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4 MFWD in snow precludes chains which are a PITA and often don't fit anyway because of fender/ clearance problems. It makes the tractor more salable when you realize you bought too small or your wife has to sell your toys /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Personally, I wouldn't buy a tractor without 4 wheel drive.
Personally, I wouldn't buy a tractor without 4 wheel drive.
F350Lawman
Gold Member
I have recently used my 4wd tractor to open up some muddy horse trails in the woods. With 2wd no driver on earth could get through, let alone back out. Trees to the left, trees to the right mud in front, no choice but to go through.
Not to say 4wd can't get stuck but in 2wd this would have been a guarantee.
Not to mention when I am pushing a pile of debris into a bonfire or into the woods and I run out of traction and need to use 4wd to continue. If I had 2wd I could take smaller piles but that just makes the job take longer
I agree there is no substitue for good driving but there are just some things that can't be done with a 2wd that CAN be done with a 4wd. Heck my truck won't even backup some small hills on wet grass in 2wd, add a tag trailer to the equation and you BETTER have 4wd /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif.
As far as 4wd axles breaking easier MAYBE, but we can probably count the numbers of broken 4wd axles here on one hand and we have how many 1000's of members? Seems like a non-issue to me. Probably a better chance of wrecking your tranny or clutch as you rock the 2wd or spin while being stuck /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Also how many guys need to super weight down their 2wd to get the traction that a stock 4wd has... that can't be good either.
Only downside to 4wd is initial cost and a wider turning radius in some applications due to the axle setup. JMHO
Not to say 4wd can't get stuck but in 2wd this would have been a guarantee.
Not to mention when I am pushing a pile of debris into a bonfire or into the woods and I run out of traction and need to use 4wd to continue. If I had 2wd I could take smaller piles but that just makes the job take longer
I agree there is no substitue for good driving but there are just some things that can't be done with a 2wd that CAN be done with a 4wd. Heck my truck won't even backup some small hills on wet grass in 2wd, add a tag trailer to the equation and you BETTER have 4wd /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif.
As far as 4wd axles breaking easier MAYBE, but we can probably count the numbers of broken 4wd axles here on one hand and we have how many 1000's of members? Seems like a non-issue to me. Probably a better chance of wrecking your tranny or clutch as you rock the 2wd or spin while being stuck /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Also how many guys need to super weight down their 2wd to get the traction that a stock 4wd has... that can't be good either.
Only downside to 4wd is initial cost and a wider turning radius in some applications due to the axle setup. JMHO
Robert_in_NY
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Guess I will finally chime in. There are still uses for 2wd tractors. Haying does not always require FWA and given the area you might be able to get by with 2wd's. I have a friend with a TN75 2wd and he does fine. I pull a 10' disc in 2wd with my 65 when the ground is dry (but when its wet the FWA gets kicked in). The advantage of FWA is that it puts the power to the ground. The rear wheels will spin too easily and you don't get the power to the ground.
Also, if all your going to do is run pto equipment you can get away with 2wd most of the times. However, I would never own a 2wd again as it will not work for me. If you are going to use a loader get FWA. If you are planning on ever doing any type of tillage get FWA. If you ever plan on doing something stupid that might get you in a jam get FWA. But if you are just going to play around with pto equipment like a tiller and chopper then you can get a 2wd, save a ton but skip the loader as it is useless on a 2wd (know from personal experience). You can get by with a 2wd loader but it waste a lot of energy and fuel trying to get something done in twice the time it would take you to do with a FWA tractor loader setup.
Also, if all your going to do is run pto equipment you can get away with 2wd most of the times. However, I would never own a 2wd again as it will not work for me. If you are going to use a loader get FWA. If you are planning on ever doing any type of tillage get FWA. If you ever plan on doing something stupid that might get you in a jam get FWA. But if you are just going to play around with pto equipment like a tiller and chopper then you can get a 2wd, save a ton but skip the loader as it is useless on a 2wd (know from personal experience). You can get by with a 2wd loader but it waste a lot of energy and fuel trying to get something done in twice the time it would take you to do with a FWA tractor loader setup.
Hmmm. Alrighty then, from reading all these posts I guess everyone believes 4wd is a waste of money and I should get 2wd. okay, I'm dislexic...sorry /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. uncle, I'll go with the 4wd...heck 1million tractor owners can't be wrong. just an aside, my JD 2020 has a FEL and I've never experienced any difficulties that I'm aware of. also, my tractor weighs in a 4800+ (tires are loaded) which is about the same as the TN65, I think maybe the TN weighs more. would y'all call my JD a CUT? I guess Im not thinking of the TN as a compact.
paul
paul
dieselsmoke1
Platinum Member
I gotta jump in on this one...
I've owned and operated many tractors over the years, all 2wd till a recent purchase of a 4wd utility tractor. Man, what a difference! It's not only what 4wd will do, but the level of confidence you have while operating it.
A short story. I recently purchased a 4wd pickup with 20k miles. My buddy bought a comparable new 2wd the same week. He had a good time chastising my ignorance because I paid more than he did. But ya know, after he walked about a mile out a muddy path and called me to pull his stuck pickup out, he changed his tune!
Moral of story: if your application only requires a 2wd, then buy it, if not definitely get the 4wd. You will not regret it.
I've owned and operated many tractors over the years, all 2wd till a recent purchase of a 4wd utility tractor. Man, what a difference! It's not only what 4wd will do, but the level of confidence you have while operating it.
A short story. I recently purchased a 4wd pickup with 20k miles. My buddy bought a comparable new 2wd the same week. He had a good time chastising my ignorance because I paid more than he did. But ya know, after he walked about a mile out a muddy path and called me to pull his stuck pickup out, he changed his tune!
Moral of story: if your application only requires a 2wd, then buy it, if not definitely get the 4wd. You will not regret it.
Robert_in_NY
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No, I do not call the TN's a Cut. TN's are Utility tractors. They are not Compacts in any sense of the term so don't worry about the few who mistake the terms. Seeing as you have most likely never used a FWA tractor with loader you would have no idea what the difference is between a FWA TN 65 with 32la Loader and your JD 2020 with loader. You will be wondering why it took you so long to change over.
Also, why don't you try a couple tractors out before you buy. See if you can demo a 2wd TN w/loader and a FWA TN w/loader. There is no better way to see the advantages of FWA then to compare like machines. Plus it will allow you to decide if it is something you really are going to need for your own use.
As for weight, a TN 65 FWA with 32LA loader will run around 3 ton. give or take about 500 pounds. One of these days I will pull mine in on the scales and find out for sure but till then...
Also, why don't you try a couple tractors out before you buy. See if you can demo a 2wd TN w/loader and a FWA TN w/loader. There is no better way to see the advantages of FWA then to compare like machines. Plus it will allow you to decide if it is something you really are going to need for your own use.
As for weight, a TN 65 FWA with 32LA loader will run around 3 ton. give or take about 500 pounds. One of these days I will pull mine in on the scales and find out for sure but till then...
TonyC
Platinum Member
Excuse me if this is "piling on" but...
I have owned 2WD tractors for 20 years now...all shapes and sizes. Before my current tractor (Kubota) I had a John Deere with a 55 HP engine. My Kubota has a 39 HP engine and it would kick that JD's butt all over the field. Even with 16 less horsepower it is more tractor than that JD ever was. I am another who will NEVER own a 2WD again. And I also agree strongly that with a 2WD, I wouldn't bother with a FEL. When you back up with a bucket full on 2WD you'd better be on flat dry land or you're sunk. With the 4WD I can back up a steep hill with a full load of gravel on board. Now THAT'S a tractor!
Good luck which ever way you go! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I have owned 2WD tractors for 20 years now...all shapes and sizes. Before my current tractor (Kubota) I had a John Deere with a 55 HP engine. My Kubota has a 39 HP engine and it would kick that JD's butt all over the field. Even with 16 less horsepower it is more tractor than that JD ever was. I am another who will NEVER own a 2WD again. And I also agree strongly that with a 2WD, I wouldn't bother with a FEL. When you back up with a bucket full on 2WD you'd better be on flat dry land or you're sunk. With the 4WD I can back up a steep hill with a full load of gravel on board. Now THAT'S a tractor!
Good luck which ever way you go! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
bgott
Veteran Member
Longer than that, actually. There were kits to retrofit Dodge Powerwagon military axles to Ford tractors back in the fifties. They might not have been factory but someone saw the need for it.
bgott
Veteran Member
The easiest way to see what you've been missing using a loader on a 2WD is to find a dealer with a dirt pile you can play with. Run a 4WD tractor with a loader into the pile in 2WD and once the tires start to spin, haul it into 4WD. That sold me.
Slamfire
Veteran Member
In my humble and evidently minority opinion, 4wd isn't worth the money it costs or the added mechanical complexity. In the first place it is really only 3 wheel drive when one wheel slips there is no differential lock to engage. As a consequense you only go a little farther with the 4wd before you get stuck. Generally just beyond the reach of the winch cable you have to pull yourself out.
ipwanab
Bronze Member
I can not even back my tractor up a slight incline without 4wd while using the RFM. The back tires will spin. I always reach for the 4wd lever even before the differential lock, it is just easier. And like lawman said- in the woods you really need it.My size tractor would be nearly unusable without it.
