4wd vs. 2wd

[JerryG]

Three wheel or not, its the best thing sense sliced bread. I would not ever have a two wheel drive again unless it was just to restore and show. My father in law has always had 2wd and didn't think that he needed anything else. That was until he saw that my compact could go work in places that his big NH 2wd couldn't even get to. His next tractor will be MFWD.

 

[_RaT_]

Jerry, I was trying to think of a response to Slamfire's post that for many of us would not ring true, specifically "4wd isn't worth the money it costs or the added mechanical complexity" when I came across yours.
I am starting to to a light restoration to a relatively new (1973) 2WD International I have. While it is much more powerful, heavier and even has R1's, it cannot come close to performing the work of my compact. To be fair, in doing the things it does like mowing on relatively dry ground in forward and not on the hills going uphill, it performs as well and sometimes better simply because it sits so much lower being a saddle tractor. If ever I need to back up uphill because I need to do a Y turn or mow under a tree etc., the International simply digs in and will easily spin both tires. With the implement on the ground, all my weight goes off the rear end and onto the ground. The situation worsens dramaticaly with ground engaging equipment like my 72" boxscraper which at over 1000lbs, quicker anchors my 2WD. My compact being 4WD and having a loader can take advantage of the added weight over the front wheels and if thats not enough, I load the bucket. Even with R4's on my compact, the International with R1's cannot come remotely close to doing this job. There is no comparision. For loader work, I know from past experience using 2WD construction tractors and using my compact in 2WD, that 2WD can become 0 wheel driving very quickly, especially when exposed to backing up uphill.
For me it's not a matter of whether one gets stuck in the mud easier, thats a situation I always try to avoid regardless of which tractor I'm on, it's a matter of knowing the limitations of both 2WD and 4WD and using the tractor respective of those limits. The 2WD will limit you out much, much quicker. For myself, those contraints just would not do and the reason my International is going up for sale and why I spent all the money on a 4WD. I just hope there are enough folks out there like Slamfire willing to buy a very decent 2WD tractor which has some tasks it does very well as long as you understand where it's limitations are and understand that those limitations get quite frustrating after using 4WD. Rat...

 

[cowboydoc]

In the first place it is really only 3 wheel drive when one wheel slips there is no differential lock to engage. As a consequense you only go a little farther with the 4wd before you get stuck

Not necessarily true. On most of the utility, the TN 65, and row crop tractors they have limited slip. The 5420 I had would spin all four tires. When you hit the diff. it locks all four tires.

 

[jlemon]

Yup, that's definitely the case on my 3830. Traversing a ditch at an angle, I ended up in a situation where (in 4wd), I was spinning the left front and right rear wheels. (Okay, I probably shouldn't have been in this situation in the first place, but that isn't the point... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif )

Engaging diff locked all 4 wheels so I was able to crawl back onto the roadway. And to think that before this, I was wondering, "what is the differential lock lever good for?"

 

[mytoys]

4WD tractors look cooler /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[40Kchicks]

I started out looking at a 2wd TN65. No one around here had one. The dealers would ask me, "you sure you want a 2wd?" For my uses it probably would have worked but I went with the 4wd due to the added resale value. One dealer actually told me he wouldn't trade in a 2wd or a tractor without a ROPS. He said he just couldn't get rid of the 2wd and didn't want the liability of selling one without the ROPS. The truth is most buyers out there want the 4wd so those are the easiest to sale. That was enough to get me to go for the 4wd.
Eric

 

[Hambone]

If 4wd isnt worth the money for the mechanical complexity, what about power steering? Sure makes things nicer, but adds to the mechanical complexity.
What about the fel, go back to the trip bucket?
I would say most have power windows and locks in pick up trucks and cars.

 

[cowboydoc]

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif My thoughts exactly Hambone. I mean it works just fine going outside to go in an outhouse too but I doubt very few people want to give up their indoor plumbing.

 

[F350Lawman]

In my humble and evidently minority opinion, 4wd isn't worth the money it costs or the added mechanical complexity. In the first place it is really only 3 wheel drive when one wheel slips there is no differential lock to engage. As a consequense you only go a little farther with the 4wd before you get stuck. Generally just beyond the reach of the winch cable you have to pull yourself out.

I can prove that 4wd drive works. I have been stuck several times in my 4wd tractor and couldn't work myself out. No chance of rocking it out and the FEL wasn't doing much in the mud. I was stuck good....oops, then I remembered I have 4wd and I hit the lever and crawled out at idle. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Of course I am half joking but that has been the situation, get stuck in 2wd and then engage 4wd and continue working. Sometimes I forgot to use 4wd before I started and other times I will try in 2wd knowing that eventually parts of the job will require 4wd.

3 wheel, 4 wheel who cares? I have completed many jobs with the aid of 4wd that just CANNOT be done in 2wd. No theory or speculation if I had a 2wd or if I decided not to hit the 4wd lever it is time to go inside and have a cool drink and forget the job. I habe tried to push a big pile, drag something large through loose soil, back heavy FEL loads on slick stuff, traverse thick mud, etc. all thes jobs NECESSITATED my switching into 4wd and would not have gotten done otherwise unless I went with smaller loads or took another route where possible in 2wd. Sometimes no other route was possible so it would have meant waiting for several days of dry weather (*not happening most of this summer).

I undersand YOU are talking about the cost. Is anyone really saying they prefer 2wd to 4wd no matter what? I find it hard to believe that ANYONE would take a 2wd over a 4wd at the same cost, as one of the original posters seemed to suggest.

As far as complexity and problems I have had other 4wd vehicles and broken almost every moving part but I can't remember any of the 4wd components going out. That reasoning for NOT getting 4wd sounds to me a bit like my buddy who cheaped it on crank windows and locks because "they have so many problems" Yeah right, maybe when they were a big breakthrough in the 60's. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif I think I broke more handles off the cranks and stripped more door lock knobs then I have had problems with the power stuff ! Same thing with 4wd it's now a perfected system that causes little if any increased problems let alone enough to outweigh the benefits.

Do you drive 2wd cars as well or is just a tractor thang? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[pruntyc]

Yep, I drive all 2 wd cars and trucks, never have needed 4wd. But I came from the country in the hills, and found how to drive on it then. And I have most never needed pulled out of anywhere, I think maybe 2 times, that I needed help. Not worth getting 4wd. Then I drove for a living for a number of years, after I left the farm, with 2 wd. And I'm from snow country to. I'm not from the BIG city. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[cowboydoc]

I'm from pretty much as far out of the city as a person can be and you didn't even try and get out to the ranches without 4wd. I don't think BIG city or 112 people in the nearest town 65 miles away had much to do with whether a person had 4wd or not.

 

[pruntyc]

The roads I was raised on, you was dragging the bottom of the car most of the time, and you were in soft mud. And we got out, never stopped any of us. Then when my younger sister got the farm and her husband couldnt' get into town without his 4wd. Our mail man went everyday in the mud and foot deep snow, all with 2wd. It can be done.

 

[F350Lawman]

Our mail man went everyday in the mud and foot deep snow, all with 2wd. It can be done.


Yeah, but why would you choose that method??? He's the mailman, he has no choice, you and I do. I COULD, given enough time, break up a sidewalk with a carpenters hammer but I'd prefer a sledge..right tool for the right job! That's what 4wd is to offroad/snow, etc, the RIGHT TOOL.

 

[Bird]

Dick, I'd be the first to agree that the driver is a very important factor and that has a great deal to do with whether or not you get stuck, however. . . there are sometimes other factors involved also. I'm not downplaying your driving ability at all, but there are very few people against whom I would not be willing to pit my own driving ability, and I've been stuck a few times in my life in 2WD vehicles; two that I can think of that were due to my error /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. And unlike many of the guys on this forum, I've never stuck a tractor in a way that I couldn't drive out of, but I've several times been where I know I'd have had to be pulled out if I hadn't had 4WD. And the fact that I've never stuck a tractor, 2WD or 4WD, and others have, is not something I attribute to my driving skill or their lack of driving skill. Some of these guys have posted pictures of their stuck tractors in places where there is no doubt whatsoever that I would have been stuck, too. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

So, yes, driver ability is a major factor, but so is 2WD vs. 4WD, as is type of vehicle, weight of vehicle, type of tires, etc.

 

[Golfgar4]

Boy Dick,

You're kind of getting ganged up on, aren't you? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I know exactly what all of these fellows are talking about, and quite honestly, I will have 4wd on my tractor when I get it. In fact, 2wd has never been a consideration.

But I support your decision and belief in 2wd being totally acceptable to some people. And you know what? I bet that just about every one of these other fellows support your choice too.

I guess the way I see it is this. Yes, I can cook on an open fire and have a pretty good meal, but it sure is a lot easier to cook on a gas top stove! Or I can use an old fashioned egg beater and get a real fine batter, but an electric mixer is faster and easier. But sometimes, it's fun to use the "old fashioned" way of doing things. Or heaven's to betsy, the old fashioned way might actually be easier or faster! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

As far as I know, you have always been a big fan of 2wd, especially since you seem to be defending it quite often. I just wanted you to know that there are some of us (the majority I believe! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif) that support your right to believe that, and anything else you want to believe in. I admire your willingness to not give in to the "majority". /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[pruntyc]

OK guys, I'll explain more of it to you. First I was raised at a time when there was no 4wd, I'm sure I'm older than most of you. And I was raise in a country that was mostly very steep hills. I never have liked chains and haven't used them but a couple of times, for I remember how they beat the fenders of my stepdads car, when I was young, he used them some times, not often. So I in the early 40's as I was driveing about in the winter time, I found out snow tires worked great, Firestone was the ones that I thought worked best. And I found that if I would work at it, find out what worked to get up the hills. I could go just about anywhere, and most couldn't, I liked that. Then one day I was at my grandfathers and I noticed he didn't have snow tires. Of course like I was saying, he learned to drive on snow at a time, when there were no snow tires. So I asked him why don't you get snow tires? And he said what for, I don't need them. And you know he was right. Here I was a better snow and ice driver than most, and he was a whole lot better snow and ice driver than me. He loved to coon hunt at night and went on those back country roads that were snow covered and never saw a snow plow. And he never had a problem. Sure made me scratch my head. HOW???? So I guess I will have to admit, it probably would be easier to do somethings with 4wd, just like it probably would have been easier for my grandfather to have done it with snow tires. But he didn't try the snow tires, and I haven't tryed the 4wd. There now are you all happy???????????????????????? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[F350Lawman]

So, yes, driver ability is a major factor, but so is 2WD vs. 4WD, as is type of vehicle, weight of vehicle, type of tires, etc.

EXACLTY

Bottom line..if your're a great driver in 2wd and almost never get stuck you'll be even better in 4wd and maybe NEVER get stuck. Some guys make it sound like if you have 4wd it must be that you need it because you lack the extraordinary driving skills of the 2wd drivers. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

4wd and good driving IS the ULTIMATE combination.

When it snows I use 2wd most of the time and when it begins to be a compromise in handling I flick the switch on the dash for 4wd. Now I could get by with 2wd but it's very nice to have those front wheels pulling themselves around the corner. A totally different feeling then working it in 2wd. Other times the snow was so deep my truck would not have gotten out of the driveway in 2wd. Just wouldn't go through bumber high snow I don't care who was at the wheel unless he was REAL good with a shovel. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

P.S. I have yet to try but I will guarantee that if the snows are the same height this year this tractor WILL NOT plow in 2wd without all sorts of weight and chains. Watching my neighbors in their tractors last year I know it WILL plow in 4wd w/o any extra weight or chains.

 

[pruntyc]

I'm not sure about if I wouldn't have gotten out of your drive way. I was living in Detroit and we got a 13 inch snow. Some people were getting out of their cars and leaveing them. I drove over to another part of town and got my pay check and then back and around quite a bit for, to find a place to cash it as some of the banks closed because that is a lot of snow there. I even got behind a car that a wrecker was trying to tow and he couldn't get it to move, and I nugged it so he could get going, and in all those miles in 13 inches of snow with some drifts. So yes I think I would have got out of your driveway with 2wd. Not trying to be a know it all or a smart aleck, just telling you as I see it, from what I've done in the past.

 

[BobG_in_VA]

Which model IH do you have?? I assume an IH utility tractor, but I also assume it does not have loaded rear tires. Personnally, I have a 60 HP MFWD shuttle shift (fully syncho) with a 78" bucket FEL (16.9 inch rears AND loaded). I also have a '57 Farmall 230 tricycle front end (11.2 X 36 rears). One must alway look at what one is doing prior to saying what's "best". Have any of you folks with a Utility tractors with MFWD, or a CUT, ever tried to cultivate corn with it?? Sorry Joe, ain't gonna get it; You'll masacre your crop. Now put the old Farmalls out there which will turn on its own axis without even using the brakes and you got something. Any of you "farmers" out there ever had more than one tractor that was there for purposes such as these?? (Most of this post is tongue in cheek, but a number of you guys will slowly nod your heads up and down as you read this. You're the guys that have "been there, done that, even got the T-shirt") BobG in VA

 

[NIXON]

Serious new guy question here ......
What is the difference between MFWD and 4wD ?
Thanks , John