4x4 Question

[whodat90]

For what it's worth I was tilling a couple food plots yesterday and was in and out of 4wd probably 100-200 times. Never any binding getting in and out of it. Here's my procedure:
Enter the food plot, pop it in 4wd shift into 1st or second.
Drop the tiller at the end.
Till to the end of the row.
Once the front tires clear the end, pop it back in 2wd.
Lift the tiller at the end, turn a bit away from where I want to end up.
Shift into third, stomp on the cutting brake and turn around the back tire, teardrop shaped.
Line up for the next row, repeat step 1.

Sometimes I was going straight when I engaged/disengaged, sometimes I was turning. Often as I was lining up on the next row I'd have to engage it when turned to pull the front end into line. Yet again, use it when you need it, read your manual to find specifically whether or not your specific system has caveats and warnings that apply to you.

 

[RayH]

Well, all that assumes locked front and rear diffs. Open diffs, HST and center diffs in fancier 4wd (SUVs, some trucks) takes a lot of those stresses out of the picture.

Regardless, I don't think _anyone_ is arguing that it is a good idea to run a 4wd tractor with the front driveline engaged on pavement or any surface in which the wheels cannot slip a little.

Open axle diffs wont stop the binding because the front tires still travel a different path then the back ones. If you have a center diff in the transfer case (All wheel drive or full time 4WD) there wont be any binding.
I think people are arguing that its a good idea. They are choosing to do it over disengaging the 4WD. They must believe its a better idea than operating in 2WD or this thread wouldve disappeared long ago.

 

[dirtworksequip]

My 4 wheel drive just went out and I didn't even get that snowball out of Texas!!! Must have used it too much when it was new.

 

[ovrszd]

My 4 wheel drive just went out and I didn't even get that snowball out of Texas!!! Must have used it too much when it was new.

There you are!!! I've been looking for you to help you with that project and here ya go and tear up your tractor before I get there!!!

 

[N80]

Well, the 'picture' offered as proof (of what I'm still not sure) is pretty much a stick figure showing that the outside front travels farther than the inside front. I'm not sure that has ever been a point of dispute.

But the thing is, Ovrszd, you're acting like you are privy to some special rule that applies to all CUT's and yet, when I've explained how my owner's manual reads and how my tractor works, you've made excuses and made up mythical systems that it doesn't have in order to shoe-horn your idea into a shoe that it does not fit.

The front diff on my tractor, most I'm assuming, is open. Only one wheel gets traction so binding is minimal except in tight turns. As I've told you, there is no binding that I can feel, not in tight turns or otherwise. There is no chatter. There is no feedback in the steering wheel. NONE. There is NO change in turning radius. So is there _some_ binding? Certainly. Of course. Is this likely to be a problem over the lifetime of my tractor? Of course not. It was made with 4wd. It was made to use 4wd. It was made to last as long as the rest of the tractor.

I'm not sure where you come off assuming that those who take your advice are wise and that those who do not are somehow dangerously hardheaded.

I've read my owner's manual cover to cover. It includes such wisdom as pointing out that diesel fuel is flammable, and yet it includes NONE of the wisdom that you can't believe that some of us won't accept. And this isn't some former Soviet block Yugo-trac, its a late model Kubota.

So if your advice is so rock solid, why doesn't my manual say anything? Why doesn't it warn that the front driveline is weak and must be handled with care (remember when you implied that the front drive line was a weak link?)? Why doesn't it say to take it out of 4wd when not needed? Why doesn't it say to take it out of 4wd even when on pavement? And no, it doesn't have some special (mythical) anti-binding system. Its about as basic a machine as anyone makes.

All I've said is to follow your owners manual. If that sounds hard headed, tell me why.

 

[dirtworksequip]

ovrszd, thanks for the offer in helping me, but it has grown to astronomical proportions and even with your help we wouldn't be able to even budge it! It has totally amazed me at how something so small could have grown so big.
I'm just going to limp on back home in 2 wheel drive. Thanks again.

 

[ovrszd]

Well, the 'picture' offered as proof (of what I'm still not sure) is pretty much a stick figure showing that the outside front travels farther than the inside front. I'm not sure that has ever been a point of dispute.

But the thing is, Ovrszd, you're acting like you are privy to some special rule that applies to all CUT's and yet, when I've explained how my owner's manual reads and how my tractor works, you've made excuses and made up mythical systems that it doesn't have in order to shoe-horn your idea into a shoe that it does not fit.

The front diff on my tractor, most I'm assuming, is open. Only one wheel gets traction so binding is minimal except in tight turns. As I've told you, there is no binding that I can feel, not in tight turns or otherwise. There is no chatter. There is no feedback in the steering wheel. NONE. There is NO change in turning radius. So is there _some_ binding? Certainly. Of course. Is this likely to be a problem over the lifetime of my tractor? Of course not. It was made with 4wd. It was made to use 4wd. It was made to last as long as the rest of the tractor.

I'm not sure where you come off assuming that those who take your advice are wise and that those who do not are somehow dangerously hardheaded.

I've read my owner's manual cover to cover. It includes such wisdom as pointing out that diesel fuel is flammable, and yet it includes NONE of the wisdom that you can't believe that some of us won't accept. And this isn't some former Soviet block Yugo-trac, its a late model Kubota.

So if your advice is so rock solid, why doesn't my manual say anything? Why doesn't it warn that the front driveline is weak and must be handled with care (remember when you implied that the front drive line was a weak link?)? Why doesn't it say to take it out of 4wd when not needed? Why doesn't it say to take it out of 4wd even when on pavement? And no, it doesn't have some special (mythical) anti-binding system. Its about as basic a machine as anyone makes.

All I've said is to follow your owners manual. If that sounds hard headed, tell me why.

N80, I bow to your superior knowledge and experience. I never offer advice in these posts, only opinion. I have never stated mine is the only one to have. I base my opinions on the basic laws of physics. Sometimes I'm right on the mark. Sometimes I'm way off. Apparently this time I'm way off. Again I bow to your superior knowledge, intelligence and experience. Everyone can now feel totally comfortable in driving their tractors in 4wd whenver they like. When I get home I've gotta work on all my 4x4 equipment and figure out why mine binds up and yours don't. Thank you N80 for resolving this lengthy discussion. Now excuse me because I have a snowball to go push, in 2wd.

 

[RayH]

Well, the 'picture' offered as proof (of what I'm still not sure) is pretty much a stick figure showing that the outside front travels farther than the inside front. I'm not sure that has ever been a point of dispute.

Well I guess the "stick figure" picture with no written explanation wasn't enough. Try this http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/def_turn.html
I dont dispute what your manual says, I do dispute the wisdom of what it says (or doesnt say). Problem with that? Do you now see and understand that the front end needs to turn a different RPM than the rear when turning or you will get some amount of scrubbing?

 

[RayH]

New Holland has fixed the issue by offering an optional Sensitrak
from NH site.
"Sensitrak™ allows you to use FWD full time when the job demands it. Or, you can switch to the automatic mode and let Sensitrak do the thinking for you. Sensitrak knows when to engage or disengage FWD by comparing the speed of the front wheels with the speed of the rear wheels. If you're working in poor conditions and the rear wheels slip, Sensitrak smoothly engages FWD to pull you through. This happens whether you're traveling in a straight line, making a slight steering correction, or turning fully. When you're working on firm ground, Sensitrak knows FWD is not needed, and will disengage, allowing the front wheels to roll freely, protecting your turf and saving wear and tear on your front tires."
As far as Im aware, Kubota doesnt offer this on their compact tractors. I could be wrong though. Maybe you got the first one.

 

[RayH]

After rereading my posts, I apologize for my smarta$$ comments, Im trying to cut back but its not easy. The real point of the post was to educate, not berate.