4x4 Question

[BillyP]

Actually, the 4wd L4400 has a tighter turning radius than the 2wd L4400 by nearly a foot according to specs. But, that is based on one rear wheel being locked.

I'd be willing to bet you two of my previous post against a hole in a donut it's a misprint

 

[ovrszd]

I'd be willing to bet you two of my previous post against a hole in a donut it's a misprint

Not sure why the manual would even post that scenario, it's talking about having the inside rear wheel locked using the brake. I would hope no one would do that with the MFWD engaged. But ya never know!!!

 

[ovrszd]

My Kubota manual calls it 4wd. There is a sticker on the fender from the factory that says "4WD".

My Ford pickup has a "4WD" sticker on it from the factory.

We all know how the systems work, but if you have a problem with what Kubota _calls_ its system, you'll have to give Mr. Kubota a call and set him straight.

Besides, can you hear one of us, talking to our buds or farmer friends, saying "Well , ah, technically speaking your tractor is not a 4 wheel drive, it is a 3 wheel drive, when the rear diff is locked, of course, and really just a two wheel drive when it isn't....technically speaking of course." Do that and you're likely to get a pocket protector for Christmas and season one of Erkle on video tape.

Hmmmm, so are you saying your L4400 will always spin all 4 wheels when the MFWD is engaged??? Hmmmmm.

 

[ovrszd]

I've operated several tractors that had a locking front differential as well as the standard locking rear differential. They would have to be considered 4wd. They pull really well that way, but sure won't turn worth a darn!

Good Post!!! That's what I was referring to, just didn't know if they existed. My Jeeps have front diff locks as well as rear. You are right, they do not want to turn at all!!! Similar to engaging the rear diff on your CUT and trying to turn. If you have a front diff lock on your tractor, then you can honestly say your tractor is 4WD. Otherwise the best you can claim is 3WD. And to N80, all the farmers around my area know that and would have a good time with anyone that claimed because their manual says 4WD, their tractor is 4WD.

 

[N80]

Hmmmm, so are you saying your L4400 will always spin all 4 wheels when the MFWD is engaged??? Hmmmmm.

Nope. Read it again. I'm saying Kubota calls it a "4WD" and if that seems technically inaccurate to you then you'll have to take it up with Kubota.....and JD and NH and all the other tractor manufacturers that use the term "4WD" either exclusively or interchangeably with MFWD. Good luck.

And if you're going to engage in proprietary semantics, no one said "4WD" means that all four wheels spin at the same time. It means that power can be applied through all four wheels. That's not so hard to understand is it?

 

[Soundguy]

There is a big difference in marketing buzzwords, and engineering techspeak. I think the 4wd/mfwd, etc vs 3wd(rear difflock ).. etc is coming from.

A tractor would never sell if the marketing put it out as a 3wd machine.. Even though, the power will usually only be transmitted by 3 wheels at a time... 2 rear, and the front with the least resistance.. or in cases where equal front resistance exists..

Soundguy

Soundguy

 

[N80]

And to N80, all the farmers around my area know that and would have a good time with anyone that claimed because their manual says 4WD, their tractor is 4WD.

Really? So lets say you stop by your farmer friend's barn and he tells you he's waiting on delivery of a new Ag tractor. You ask him which one and he says its a new Kubota.

You're interested of course and would like to know if it has a front driveline. Do you ask:

A) Is it a four wheel drive?
b) Is it a three wheel drive when you use the diff lock?
c) Is it a mechanical front wheel drive?

Around here, you'd simply say "It's a four wheel drive" and everyone would know _exactly_ what you were talking about regardless of who made the tractor.

If you told them it was a three wheel drive they'd either think you were being a smart *****, joking or just a dweeb.

If you told them it was "mechanical front wheel drive" they'd simply think you were being overly precise and/or a dweeb.

If it is really that different in Missouri is must be a pleasure to be surrounded by such technically and semantically precise farmers. But we grow them a little different down here.

 

[ovrszd]

Really? So lets say you stop by your farmer friend's barn and he tells you he's waiting on delivery of a new Ag tractor. You ask him which one and he says its a new Kubota.

You're interested of course and would like to know if it has a front driveline. Do you ask:

A) Is it a four wheel drive?
b) Is it a three wheel drive when you use the diff lock?
c) Is it a mechanical front wheel drive?

Around here, you'd simply say "It's a four wheel drive" and everyone would know _exactly_ what you were talking about regardless of who made the tractor.

If you told them it was a three wheel drive they'd either think you were being a smart *****, joking or just a dweeb.

If you told them it was "mechanical front wheel drive" they'd simply think you were being overly precise and/or a dweeb.

If it is really that different in Missouri is must be a pleasure to be surrounded by such technically and semantically precise farmers. But we grow them a little different down here.

Hey,,,, I'm just trying to not get muddy!!!!

 

[Soundguy]

Do we really have to beat every last word out of this 'semantics' topic?

I thinks it's pretty safe to say that '4wd' is a -generic- term, and MFWD is a specific manufacturers term, and the the 3wd issue is a technical aspect of the functioning of the most common '4wd' systems.

I don't think anyone here is debating those facts... right?

Soundguy

Really? So lets say you stop by your farmer friend's barn and he tells you he's waiting on delivery of a new Ag tractor. You ask him which one and he says its a new Kubota.

You're interested of course and would like to know if it has a front driveline. Do you ask:

A) Is it a four wheel drive?
b) Is it a three wheel drive when you use the diff lock?
c) Is it a mechanical front wheel drive?

Around here, you'd simply say "It's a four wheel drive" and everyone would know _exactly_ what you were talking about regardless of who made the tractor.

If you told them it was a three wheel drive they'd either think you were being a smart *****, joking or just a dweeb.

If you told them it was "mechanical front wheel drive" they'd simply think you were being overly precise and/or a dweeb.

If it is really that different in Missouri is must be a pleasure to be surrounded by such technically and semantically precise farmers. But we grow them a little different down here.

 

[N80]

Do we really have to beat every last word out of this 'semantics' topic?

I thinks it's pretty safe to say that '4wd' is a -generic- term, and MFWD is a specific manufacturers term, and the the 3wd issue is a technical aspect of the functioning of the most common '4wd' systems.

I don't think anyone here is debating those facts... right?

Soundguy

I think you are correct on all counts.

 

[RobJ]

Actually, the 4wd L4400 has a tighter turning radius than the 2wd L4400 by nearly a foot according to specs. But, that is based on one rear wheel being locked.

Do you really believe this? How could this be true? Does the 4wd have a shorter wheelbase? I also noted in my post that that is with the brake locked. NOT a true turning radious IMO. These aren't really meant to be a skid steer.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Do you really believe this? How could this be true? Does the 4wd have a shorter wheelbase? I also noted in my post that that is with the brake locked. NOT a true turning radious IMO. These aren't really meant to be a skid steer.

Back in the 1980's, when John Deere first introduced "Caster Action MFWD" on their line of bigger AG tractors, (XX50 series) the improved steering capabilities they offered actually had a shorter turning radius than the plain 2WD models WITH THE SAME WHEELBASE. Plain and simple, the front wheels turned sharper.

Also, in most cases, tractors, be it 2WD or "4WD" will have turning radius specs that are determined with slight application of rear brake. It's just one more way that most all manufacturers "improve" their specs.

 

[RobJ]

Back in the 1980's, when John Deere first introduced "Caster Action MFWD" on their line of bigger AG tractors, (XX50 series) the improved steering capabilities they offered actually had a shorter turning radius than the plain 2WD models WITH THE SAME WHEELBASE. Plain and simple, the front wheels turned sharper.

Also, in most cases, tractors, be it 2WD or "4WD" will have turning radius specs that are determined with slight application of rear brake. It's just one more way that most all manufacturers "improve" their specs.

But we're talking about a couple L models. And on the same model using a locked rear wheel the only way I can see the radious being smaller is a shorter wheel base and/or narrow width. Maybe the L4400's have a shorter wb with the 4wd. Otherwise I think something got lost in translation.

 

[Soundguy]

Do you really believe this? How could this be true? Does the 4wd have a shorter wheelbase? I also noted in my post that that is with the brake locked. NOT a true turning radious IMO. These aren't really meant to be a skid steer.

Perhaps the 2wd axle at oem set length was wider than the 4wd axle? Or? could turn sharper.. or the wheel width based on rim dishing was different?

Soundguy

 

[neverenough]

Do you really believe this? How could this be true? Does the 4wd have a shorter wheelbase? I also noted in my post that that is with the brake locked. NOT a true turning radious IMO. These aren't really meant to be a skid steer.

Locking one wheel is all about the turning radius. Tractors have been designed to pivot on one rear wheel since they were invented. It's all about maneuverability. Plant with smaller grain drills or row planters, or maneuver a tractor and loader through cow pens, you'll find out real quick how important pivoting on one wheel is.

 

[neverenough]

Not sure why the manual would even post that scenario, it's talking about having the inside rear wheel locked using the brake. I would hope no one would do that with the MFWD engaged. But ya never know!!!

If the rear isn't locked, it should have no ill effects using one brake to turn. Though if you are in a situation where the terrain requires 4wd, it's not likely locking the rear wheel will do more than cause the wheel to slide.

 

[RobJ]

Perhaps the 2wd axle at oem set length was wider than the 4wd axle? Or? could turn sharper.. or the wheel width based on rim dishing was different?

Soundguy

Well we were typing at the same time... Here are some fun facts from Kubota.com

L4400 2wd 4wd
Overall lenght 122.6 118.3
Wheelbase 72.8 72.6
Radius 9.2 8.5
front treadwidth 50.4-62.2 45.5 fixed
rear treadwidth 46.5-51.7 same for both.

I think we can see that these numbers would probably get us close enough. But I still don't think using the brake is a fair way to measure.

I'm doing my own homework next time!!

 

[N80]

The minimum front tread width on the L4400 2wd model is 5 inches wider than the tfront tread width of the 4wd model. The wheel base on the 2wd model is 0.2 inches longer than the 4wd model.

There may be a typo in the turning radius specs for all I know, but it is repeated consistently in all the spec sheets and feature lists. The turning radius for the 2400 and 3400 is a tiny bit smaller with the 2wd as one would expect.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

But we're talking about a couple L models. And on the same model using a locked rear wheel the only way I can see the radious being smaller is a shorter wheel base and/or narrow width. Maybe the L4400's have a shorter wb with the 4wd. Otherwise I think something got lost in translation.

I realize which models you were talking specifically of. My point is, just because a certain tractor is 2WD or 4WD doesn't always mean 4WD will have wider turning radius. Not a given...........

 

[RobJ]

I realize which models you were talking specifically of. My point is, just because a certain tractor is 2WD or 4WD doesn't always mean 4WD will have wider turning radius. Not a given...........

I understand, on the L4400 I think we've sort of proved that using the brake. Still, I wonder what the numbers are without using the brake. I'm sure someone with a loader full or dirt or a 5x5 bale doesn't like to use the brake to turn. Especially on a driveway, concrete, lawn, etc...with ag tires on the front.