54 Ferggie TO30 PTO housing question

[Jerry/MT]

I just bought a 1954 Ferguson TO30. Sweet little tractor. It had a few fuel leaks, needed new gasket at sediment bowl and a brass fitting where the fuel line connects to the carb. Fixed those for under $10.00. So now the only other "leak" I have is the seal at the PTO. I've already ordered the seal and housing gasket from E pay. should be here within the week. The housing for the PTO is broken and missing a nice sized chunk where the treads are if you wanted to use a PTO cover. My question is and maybe I should have asked in the Ford N section but since it's a Ferggie I thought I'd ask here. I looked on Ebay and found a few "used" complete PTO shafts with housings that are listed for TO 20, TO 30, and Ford N series tractors. However when looking closer at the housing ends it doesn't seem to be threaded to accept the PTO screw on cover. Does any one know if the Ford housings are in fact threaded.

Thanx in advance.
Mike

The TO/TE-20, the TO-30 and the 2N/9N Ford share the Ferguson System and the 3 pt hitch parts are interchangeable on those models. I'm not sure about the pto shaft assemblies but IIRC they are also. ( the hydraulic pump is driven with the PTO shaft and that entire system is Ferguson so I'm almost positive that the shaft assemblies are interchangeable)

Since they have transmission operated PTO's they have a threaded cap to offer protection fron the spinning pto shaft. They originally came with 1-1/8 shafts, so an 1-1/8 x 1-3/8 adapter is necessary to run most modern pto driven implements. The 1-3/8 shaft is available as a replacement and uses the same bearing /seal housing.

 

[MF204Mike]

Thanx for the info Jerry, I was pretty sure the parts would be interchangeable but having never replaced any before any thing could be possible.
I believe the shaft assembly I ordered was listed as "2n 9n and TO30" so that agrees with what you said, I will measure the length when I get the one I ordered and my shaft once I pull it. The one I ordered and mine both have the 6 spline 1 3/8 shaft.

I'm wondering if the 8N is the one with the 30 7/8 in shaft, I know that was the later of the "N" series tractors and maybe that was after Ford and Ferguson parted ways. Just something a little bit different from the original Ferguson system since Harry Ferguson received a settlement from Ford over the "handshake" deal.

Thanx
Mike

 

[Soundguy]

Even the 1 1/8 shafts are 6 spline

 

[Soundguy]

The 9-2-8 n shaft assy are all compatible.

The early 9n did have an assy that was not individually part comparable, but you could swap as a unit with the new assy.

I know some of the repop parts are being made to fit both ford and fergy, with hand fitting usually needed on pump side covers and on the hyd cyl when put in fords. They may have a universal pro assy now too.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Thanx for the info Jerry, I was pretty sure the parts would be interchangeable but having never replaced any before any thing could be possible.
I believe the shaft assembly I ordered was listed as "2n 9n and TO30" so that agrees with what you said, I will measure the length when I get the one I ordered and my shaft once I pull it. The one I ordered and mine both have the 6 spline 1 3/8 shaft.

I'm wondering if the 8N is the one with the 30 7/8 in shaft, I know that was the later of the "N" series tractors and maybe that was after Ford and Ferguson parted ways. Just something a little bit different from the original Ferguson system since Harry Ferguson received a settlement from Ford over the "handshake" deal.

Thanx
Mike

The 8N has a different hydraulic system because of the end of the "handshake agreement".

 

[MF204Mike]

I am curious, does the seal come out from the inside part of the carrier housing? I've looked to see if maybe it was possible to remove it without pulling the shaft but I don't see any kind of retainer. I seem to remember reading it had to come out from the inside but I forget things pretty easy. CRS strikes again.

and thanx soundguy on the 1 1/8 having 6 splines I had seen one with only 4 splines and wasn't sure.

Jerry do you know what was different on the hydraulic system after the "handshake agreement".

Thanx to both of you
Mike

 

[Soundguy]

ford redesigned the pump a bit to handle a control rod instead of a control yoke. that said, the workings of the draft control were changed to incorporate position control. thus, you can swap an 8n hyd cover and pump into a 9n/2n, if you swap both pieces, same with a 9n/2n pump and top cover can swap to an 8n, if both pieces go. you cannot mix n match 8n and 9n/2n covers and pumps.. however the hyd cyl and piston is the same.

the housing has some split rings in it. once the back ring is out, the housing and seal will slide off the front of the pto shaft and bearing assy. then you drive the seal out. ( drives out either way if you remove the front split ring )

the pto shaft has a bearing and a wear ring. rear split ring captures the 'press' on bearing and the front wear ring limits forward movement.

seal rides on wear ring.

it's way easier to clean the carrier with it removed. tCOULD repalce the seal externally, it would be cleaner and easier to do it on the bench.

 

[MF204Mike]

I received the PTO shaft assembly yesterday, ordered it Sunday night and got it on a Wednesday, I was surprised USPS said delivery would be Saturday.
Now the seal and and carrier gasket are another story. I ordered it 3 days before the shaft and it didn't even ship until yesterday.
I was planning on just removing my shaft assembly and sticking this one in but the external shaft is only 1 1/8, it measured 30 3/8 long. I haven't pulled mine yet to measure length but I will bet it is the longer 30 7/8 shaft, it does have the 1 3/8 external. Also after reading soundguy's post I thought the wear rings had already made their mark on the corresponding internals so the easy way out would be just change the carrier housing while using the original shaft.

Will update when I pull my shaft after the seal and gasket arrive.
Thanx again for the helpful info guys.
Mike

 

[Jerry/MT]

I am curious, does the seal come out from the inside part of the carrier housing? I've looked to see if maybe it was possible to remove it without pulling the shaft but I don't see any kind of retainer. I seem to remember reading it had to come out from the inside but I forget things pretty easy. CRS strikes again.

and thanx soundguy on the 1 1/8 having 6 splines I had seen one with only 4 splines and wasn't sure.

Jerry do you know what was different on the hydraulic system after the "handshake agreement".

Thanx to both of you
Mike

I believe it was the pump and the controls but I'm more familiar with the Ferguson System that the 8N system. I believe the control valve is different as there is position control and draft control on the 8N. Sorry I just have no experience with the 8N.

 

[Soundguy]

To the op. Good luck. Mix n match parts font always match

You can get a orc, or a pin on stub extender, and either will bring your 1 1/8 stub up to 1 3/8