540E

[denjen]

Do you use the 540E? I am thinking of using it for mowing my pasture (very clean and not over 18" high) and was wondering if running 540E at ~1900 rpm would get engine hot enough for the tier4? I have a 6' flail mower.

 

[LouNY]

I use the 540E on my tractor much more then the straight 540,
generator 540E,
brush hog 90% 540E, 10% 540,
tedder 540E,
blower 540E,
sickle bar 540E.

 

[denjen]

Thanks! If your tractor is tier4 have you seen any issues?

 

[ptsg]

Like Lou, I use 540E pretty much all the time on the tiller and brush mower. Even on high brush it handles it easily.

I don't have Emissions on my tractor though. I don't know if it can be a problem or not, but I doubt it is. It will be under load and the exhaust temps will still increase which makes the DPF happy.

 

[LouNY]

Thanks! If your tractor is tier4 have you seen any issues?

No DOC on mine pre tier 4

 

[ericm979]

My 3725's tach "green zone" is 2000-2500 rpm. That's where the manual says you're supposed to run it to keep the DOC+DPF happy. So I don't use 540E. For my pto tasks I wouldn't use it anyhow. The chipper needs all the power it can get. 95% of my mowing is on hills where I need full power to drive uphill while running the mower.

Some of my mowing is on steep hills, like along my driveway. Yesterday I used the grapple to carry a heavy log up the driveway to my house. The log was heavy enough that the loader would not curl it up all the way. I had to put the tractor in low range. And I have smaller than normal tires for this model hence slightly lower gearing.

One drawback of running at 1900 rpm is that you don't get "torque rise". That's where torque increases as rpm decreases from normal operating rpm, as long as rpm does not get too low. Most tractor engines including ours are set up that way. For example here's power curves for the A1700:



Note the torque peaks at about 1800 rpm, but HP is highest at peak rpm. (The bottom SFC chart is specific fuel consumption or fuel used per HP. Running in 540E would result in lower fuel use).

 

[ptsg]

But the 540E does work at the engine peak torque, give or take a couple RPMs. The charts from Cummins vs Kukje for the A1700, doesn't quite match exactly, which is fine.

On the fuel consumption, the difference is quite substantial.

Last week I decided to do the first pass of tilling in 540. I could almost see the fuel gauge dropping but on the other hand, the engine got much quieter and smoother. I've never really revved up much higher than 2000 RPMs, other than the occasional road trip to get hay for the goats. It was a nice break in process.

The second pass at 540E, the fuel gauge will take a lot more time to drop.

EDIT: But the absolutely best thing of the 540E, is that you'll then have a Neutral position in between 540 and 540E, which lets you rotate the PTO shaft freely to align the spline when hooking PTO implements. This is an huge advantage versus single PTO speed tractors with electric over hydraulic engagement and it's often an overlooked feature.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Den,

What kind of climate are you operating in? Is it hot or warm weather at your location, or is it cold?

My issues were all cold weather related ones. I never had problems in the summer time, and I would run my brush cutter in 540E then.

Now, since "The Surgery", I run my engine at low rpms, or idle it, or run 540E anytime I wish. It does help with fuel consumption, and yes, you will notice the difference in fill ups.

 

[ericm979]

But the 540E does work at the engine peak torque, give or take a couple RPMs.

I guess I did not explain torque rise sufficiently. Here's a much better explanation: Perkins | Torque backup

 

[denjen]

I am in GA, basically hot as ****** most of the time. I have thought about doing the 'surgery' but get conflicting responses from dealer if that voids the warranty. I also wonder about long term longevity of the engine always running at 2600rpm, eric thanks for the link will take a look.

 

[ptsg]

I guess I did not explain torque rise sufficiently. Here's a much better explanation: Perkins | Torque backup

Excellent article. Thanks for sharing. I understand now what you're trying to explain. It does make sense but the 540E is supposedly to be used with light to medium duty applications, so I guess the engineers focus on the peak torque because they don't expect it to be very loaded anyway.

Just out of curiosity, have you ever tried to run your wood chipper on 540E? I would imagine that it may struggle on the start up or even stall.

 

[ericm979]

I haven't though it would be interesting to find out. There's a good chance it'll stall. The chipper has a 200lb flywheel and it's geared up about 2:1. The engine speed drops noticeably for a second or so when the PTO engages.

@dengen it won't hurt to run it in the suggested rpm range. 2600 rpm or whatever it takes to be in the green zone on the tach is hardly stressing the engine. Keep the fluids and filters clean and it'll last forever at the few hundred hours a year that home users run stuff. I'd keep the emissions parts too. They won't hurt anything, they make the exhaust cleaner and you already paid for them. If the DOC+DPF ever does cause a problem you can deal with it then.

 

[denjen]

Thanks guys, I just tired 540 vs. 54E flail mowing and did notice engine temp was not as high in 540E and definitely didn't use as much fuel. I agree about durability; but it is can be hard see the tach that high..... LOL

 

[Branson Bob]

My 3725's tach "green zone" is 2000-2500 rpm. That's where the manual says you're supposed to run it to keep the DOC+DPF happy. So I don't use 540E. For my pto tasks I wouldn't use it anyhow. The chipper needs all the power it can get. 95% of my mowing is on hills where I need full power to drive uphill while running the mower.

Some of my mowing is on steep hills, like along my driveway. Yesterday I used the grapple to carry a heavy log up the driveway to my house. The log was heavy enough that the loader would not curl it up all the way. I had to put the tractor in low range. And I have smaller than normal tires for this model hence slightly lower gearing.

One drawback of running at 1900 rpm is that you don't get "torque rise". That's where torque increases as rpm decreases from normal operating rpm, as long as rpm does not get too low. Most tractor engines including ours are set up that way. For example here's power curves for the A1700:

View attachment 647622

Note the torque peaks at about 1800 rpm, but HP is highest at peak rpm. (The bottom SFC chart is specific fuel consumption or fuel used per HP. Running in 540E would result in lower fuel use).

Hi Eric. I don't want to hijack the thread but I don't want to start another one either. Which chipper do you have and how would you describe your satisfaction with it? What size/type brush are you chipping?

Thanks!

 

[deserteagle71]

I have never used anything but 540E with my Kubota, but then the only PTO work I do is mowing and for my Kubota that's pretty easy work. To run the mower at 540, using 540E, I have to keep the Kubota at ~ 1800 rpm. Never any regen problems - every once in a while I notice the regen light has come on in the dash but then after a few minutes it goes off and that's it. I couldn't give you any idea of how often (how many hours) it regenerates because I honestly don't know. I don't keep track of it. But it is not very often.

 

[ericm979]

Hi Eric. I don't want to hijack the thread but I don't want to start another one either. Which chipper do you have and how would you describe your satisfaction with it? What size/type brush are you chipping?

I have a Woodmaxx 8H 8" hydraulic feed chipper. I had a hard time deciding between that and the Woodland Mills. Both are North America designed and built in China and about the same price. They're different designs, there are plusses and minuses to each one. I watched a lot of videos and it looked like getting sizeable material to start feeding is more work with the Woodland Mills. I'd have to run them side by side to really know though.

I have about 10 acres of land that was pasture in the '40s and has been left since then. There's a lot of coyote brush, some coffee berry, and trees (bay, fir, tan oak) ranging in size from small to 40'. Most of it is coyote brush though. Very mature coyote brush. Some of the trunks are too big to go into the chipper. And poison oak too, but I don't chip that.

Overall I'm pretty satisfied with the 8H. I replaced the hydraulic speed control with a US made one that is better sized for the chipper's flow. The original one made it hard to get a speed between minimum and maximum as the effective range of the adjuster was very narrow. Swapping knives is not too hard, though that and checking the knife to bed knife clearance would be a lot easier with a chipper that came apart clamshell style like the Woodland Mills and some Wallensteins. I've been chipping a lot of tree parts too. Until last year I did not have a wood stove so I chipped everything that would fit. Now that I have a stove I can burn some of that but there's still a lot that goes through the chipper. When chipping large material I have to cut the feed rate way down, which is why I needed a better flow control. The 3725 has enough power for most things I do but it could use more power for chipping large stuff. The large mouth on the chipper is useful for brush as it means less cutting to get it in.

Last time I was rotating knives I dropped a bolt into the chipper housing. There is an access port but the bolt was on the wrong side of the flywheel. I ended up taping a borescope and a small parts grabber to a coat hanger and fishing around until I got it. The clamshell opening type chippers would not have that problem.

 

[Branson Bob]

I have a Woodmaxx 8H 8" hydraulic feed chipper. I had a hard time deciding between that and the Woodland Mills. Both are North America designed and built in China and about the same price. They're different designs, there are plusses and minuses to each one. I watched a lot of videos and it looked like getting sizeable material to start feeding is more work with the Woodland Mills. I'd have to run them side by side to really know though.

I have about 10 acres of land that was pasture in the '40s and has been left since then. There's a lot of coyote brush, some coffee berry, and trees (bay, fir, tan oak) ranging in size from small to 40'. Most of it is coyote brush though. Very mature coyote brush. Some of the trunks are too big to go into the chipper. And poison oak too, but I don't chip that.
.

Awesome reply Eric. Thanks. We have 10 acres in the Sierra Foothills. We're at just under 2400 feet so we're almost sub-alpine and during the spring the proximity to the mountains affects the weather though I think not as profoundly as the ocean does where you are. In the autumn there doesn't seem to be much mountain effect and the summers are very hot, hotter I think than the Santa Cruz Mountains. There are various oaks and the most common conifers are bull pine, ponderosa, and sugar pine. There's lots of manzanita and buckbrush and stuff like that.

I'm leaning towards a new Woodmax 9". 9" PTO Wood Chipper Shredder | Made in the USA | 3pt. Wood Chipper Attachment -WoodMaxx

I don't know about yours but this one is manufactured in Akron, NY which is a mostly rural town about a half hour from Buffalo. I believe they say they are American made. Anyways I was an arborist for 10 years and have fed a lot of chippers, slow and fast feed, like Whisper Chippers. I appreciate your comments about the speed control and the ease of maintenance. I'm not about to buy it but if I were to buy one right now it would be that one.

 

[ericm979]

Yes the MX series are made in the US. Given how much I use the thing (over 60 hours so far) I could have justified the extra cost. When I was arguing with Woodmaxx about the feed controller on the 8H they said that the hydrostatic feed on the MX does not have the same problem.

Yea we get a lot more rain here than where you are. Avg is 50 inches a year but in the 22 years we have lived here it's varied from 35 to 100. And its a little cooler in summer. The brush is thicker here than the central sierras or even the north coast. We have the perfect environment for stuff to grow really fast.