58 MPG by 2032

[dodge man]

Tuned exhaust equals no muffler or a stack behind the cab. This also means incredibly annoying. I had a 2004 Dodge with a Cummins and no muffler. It did sound like a semi. I got exhaust on it pretty quick because it was obnoxious.

 

[Bentrim]

Enjoy your freedom while it lasts. The government is regulating you choice of what you can buy or own. They believe that man has caused climate change and that it can be controlled by throwing money at it, which means new taxes, and limiting your choices of which car, stove, toilet, and dishwasher you can buy.
They are for controlling you while they purchase carbon credits so then can do as they please.
No fossil fuel for you, just electric (generated by fossil fuel) and then unimaginable electric rates.
You don't see Washington DC covered with solar panels and wind mills, but you are supposed to depend on them.
Of course on of their goals is zero carbon. No carbon dioxide, no green plants, no animals, no people. Even then climate will still change.

Oh by they way I need help designing an Egen. When the power goes out just plug it in and you can generate electric power. How many fools would fall for an Egen??

 

[nickfank]

Enjoy your freedom while it lasts...
No fossil fuel for you

Nobody is forcing me to put solar panels on my barn so I'm not completely dependent on the global companies that control fossil fuel resources. That's simply a rational decision for anyone who values independence. Nobody is forcing me to choose a power source that costs me half as much. That's a rational decision for a person who doesn't want to waste his money.

By all means, make your own decisions, but please take off the blinders long enough to realize that choosing to depend solely on a resource that someone else controls is the opposite of freedom.

 

[nickfank]

What does tuned semi exhaust sound like? Been in the diesel community for many years and would like to learn about semi exhaust tuning.

Try listening to a fleet truck with basic exhaust and compare the sound to a consumer pickup truck. It's obvious. (It helps that I'm old enough that I drove diesel pickups back in the early 80s, when the point of a muffler was to make them quiet.)

 

[WinterDeere]

One rational, and in no way political, concern of mine is scale of economy. As more people gain partial energy independence through solar, and more reduce their consumption through those terrible looking LED's, I do expect the cost of electricity for those remaining at current usage patterns will have to go up. Economy of scale works in all regards.

I live in a picturesque old house, the value of which is very strongly tied to its curb appeal. So, solar panels on our raised seam or cedar shingled roofs are an absolute "no go" here, not only for the cosmetic issue, but because our only southern-facing roof is shaded by large deciduous trees (as was the norm in old houses in this area). We also have unique lighting that mostly precludes conversion to LED, even if that tech is nearing a point where they don't look as terrible as they once did.

Don't get me started on still heating the place with an oil-fired boiler. No nat.gas in our neighborhood, and the place isn't suited to be ducted for a heat pump, we're pretty well stuck with a hydronic-based solution.

 

[WinterDeere]

Try listening to a fleet truck with basic exhaust and compare the sound to a consumer pickup truck. It's obvious. (It helps that I'm old enough that I drove diesel pickups back in the early 80s, when the point of a muffler was to make them quiet.)

An aside, but any time I see one of these idiots with smoke stacks in the bed of their pickup, all I can think of is toddlers in Osh Kosh B'Gosh overalls with a toy tool belt, pretending they're working alongside dad. Whatever their purpose, it looks to the rest of the world like Peter Pan Syndrome, wanting to pretend their pickup is a big rig.

I guess they must not actually use the bed of the pickup for hauling material, if they're willing to give up that sort of space to a pair of chrome stacks?

 

[Deleted member 371759]

Try listening to a fleet truck with basic exhaust and compare the sound to a consumer pickup truck. It's obvious. (It helps that I'm old enough that I drove diesel pickups back in the early 80s, when the point of a muffler was to make them quiet.)

Dang kids and their 700hp turbo diesels. We definately have way too much freedom. Need to get back to the days of 110HP diesels.

 

[nickfank]

One rational, and in no way political, concern of mine is scale of economy. As more people gain partial energy independence through solar, and more reduce their consumption through those terrible looking LED's, I do expect the cost of electricity for those remaining at current usage patterns will have to go up. Economy of scale works in all regards.

Yeah, I can see and understand that concern, but I'm not really worried. In the cities, there's simply not enough roof space, so all of the major population centers will remain dependent on the grid and utility-scale power generation.

Additionally, anyone who has driven an EV knows they will inevitably dominate the market simply because they are a better product. (Many will disagree with me about that, and I can predict with certainty that those who disagree most loudly will turn out to have no experience with EVs.) That means demand for electricity is likely to increase rather than decrease. The increase will be mostly in off-peak times, so initially it won't require scaling up production or beefing up the grid, but eventually demand will outstrip supply in urban & suburban areas.

If more of the grid electricity comes from utility-scale solar farms or windmills, that will simply lower the cost, because solar and wind are already cheaper than any fossil fuel. Hydro is still cheapest. Nuclear is more expensive, but probably necessary because the sun doesn't shine at night and sometimes the wind stop blowing.

 

[Deleted member 371759]

Yeah, I can see that concern, but I'm not really worried. In the cities, there's simply not enough roof space, so all of the major population centers will remain dependent on the grid. Additionally, anyone who has driven an EV knows they are inevitable simply because they are nicer. That means demand for electricity is likely to increase rather than decrease.

If they are inevitable due to their superiority there would not be a massive governmental regulations to mandate them. Consumers would naturally make the change. Thats how capitalism works or we would still be riding horses to work. Reeeeee they are nicer, NOW BUY THEM. or else. If you want a smart car buy it I prefer a car that not monitored by microsoft, local government, state governmenr, federal government, corporations, hackers, CIA,FBI, Google, BIng, HP. Enjoy your electric car they can turn off as soon as you say or do the wrong thing.

 

[nickfank]

Dang kids and their 700hp turbo diesels. We definately have way too much freedom. Need to get back to the days of 110HP diesels.

Chuckle! Yep, you caught me being a curmudgeon. I plead guilty your honor.

I also plead rational though. Most of the wannabe semis are driven by commuters or weekend warriors who wish they did something more interesting for a living, but couldn't afford to buy that truck on a blue collar wage.

 

[WinterDeere]

If they are inevitable due to their superiority there would not be a massive governmental regulations to mandate them. Consumers would naturally make the change. Thats how capitalism works or we would still be riding horses to work. Reeeeee they are nicer, NOW BUY THEM. or else. If you want a smart car buy it I prefer a car that not monitored by microsoft, local government, state governmenr, federal government, corporations, hackers, CIA,FBI, Google, BIng, HP. Enjoy your electric car they can turn off as soon as you say or do the wrong thing.

Can you point to a government mandate that is forcing you or me to buy an electric car? I'm not seeing it.

Also, can you give an example of an electric car that "turns off as soon as I say the wrong thing"?

This is pure tinfoil hat BS, as far as I can see. And before you make too many assumptions, two of my three vehicles have 6.4L HEMI's, the third only being 5.7L because they didn't offer the 6.4L in that configuration. Put otherwise, I'm no EV fanatic, but I'm also not towing any political line.

 

[nickfank]

If they are inevitable due to their superiority there would not be a massive governmental regulations to mandate them. Consumers would naturally make the change. Thats how capitalism works or we would still be riding horses to work. Reeeeee they are nicer, NOW BUY THEM. or else. If you want a smart car buy it I prefer a car that not monitored by microsoft, local government, state governmenr, federal government, corporations, hackers, CIA,FBI, Google, BIng, HP. Enjoy your electric car they can turn off as soon as you say or do the wrong thing.

Let's just get ourselves back to reality here for a second...

1) There is currently no mandate. The *proposed* rule that started this conversation is 9 years in the future.

2) In spite of the fact that there is no mandate and never has been, the market share of EVs has grown steadily every year for the past decade. You can't explain that in any way other than consumers choosing EVs over ICE cars.

I share your concern about freedom from meddling, therefore neither of my EVs are connected to the Internet except briefly, when I ask the dealer to apply a software update that I want.

Since I've done some software work for a large manufacturing firm, I can tell you that most modern diesel semis spend more time connected the Internet than my EV, and in fact, there's one engine that can be tuned remotely while driving. (Can't tell you which one without breaking an NDA, but your diesel community will confirm this.)

 

[Deleted member 371759]

Can you point to a government mandate that is forcing you or me to buy an electric car? I'm not seeing it.

Also, can you give an example of an electric car that "turns off as soon as I say the wrong thing"?

This is pure tinfoil hat BS, as far as I can see.

Umm emission mandates that are unobtainable is de facto forcing electric vehicles on everyone along with massive regulations on the fossil fuel industry. Tin foil I have heard all that before. Truckers and their supporters in Canada had their bank accounts frozen, millions of people were fired from jobs for not taking the jab, thousands of people de-platformed from social media.. But they wont shut off your car. Give me a break.

 

[WinterDeere]

Umm emission mandates that are unobtainable is de facto forcing electric vehicles on everyone along with massive regulations on the fossil fuel industry. Tin foil I have heard all that before. Truckers and their supporters in Canada had their bank accounts frozen, millions of people were fired from jobs for not taking the jab, thousands of people de-platformed from social media.. But they wont shut off your car. Give me a break.

Emissions requirements are per fleet, which is what has permitted FCA Dodge to continue producing 6.4L and 6.2L supercharged engines up through 2023, they're offset by the tens of thousands of Fiat 500's and Chrysler minivans that clog our streets.

Interesting you bring truckers into this. Are you a trucker? I'm not, and what affects them has no bearing on my personal vehicle, or my choices thereof. We are talking here about personal vehicles, not commercial vehicles.

 

[nickfank]

Umm emission mandates that are unobtainable is de facto forcing electric vehicles on everyone along with massive regulations on the fossil fuel industry.

Again, that proposed efficiency standard is in the future, yet EV market share has been increasing during the previous decade. You're not really making sense.

I'm a little more paranoid than others on this thread, so I *do* share your worry about hacking the control system of a drive-by-wire car connected to the mother ship... but surely a skilled diesel mechanic can find & disconnect a 5G antenna as easily as I did.

(And to echo WinterDeere's comment, before you go making assumptions, my barn is full of tools to maintain ICEs, I drove a semi for a year when I was young, and I've probably rebuilt more ICEs than most of the people on this forum.)

 

[Deleted member 371759]

LMAO I brought up the fact truckers and their supporters bank accounts were frozen for performing a activity that was outside of the approved narrative. If they could have disable their vehicles like they can with modern electric vehicles they would have. They tried by refusing them diesel but supporters smuggled in in. I dont care about what you drive I find it quite telling that you care so much about what i drive though. I like big turbos and oversized injectors on pre emission diesels.

 

[nickfank]

LMAO I brought up the fact truckers and their supporters bank accounts were frozen for performing a activity that was outside of the approved narrative. If they could have disable their vehicles like they can with modern electric vehicles they would have. They tried by refusing them diesel but supporters smuggled in in. I dont care about what you drive I find it quite telling that you care so much about what i drive though. I like big turbos and oversized injectors on pre emission diesels.

I can't recall anyone posting that they care about what you drive. In fact, until you told me in the last sentence of this post, I didn't know what you drive.

I enjoy discussions about the relative merits of different technology, but if it's getting so personal that I'm hurting your feelings, I'll stop.

The reason I posted on this thread is primarily to point out the faulty reasoning of equating dependence on global oil companies with personal freedom, and also claiming that producing and using your own energy is in some way knuckling under to government pressure.

I hope I inspired a few people think about whether it makes sense for consumers who have no other option to rabidly defend the fossil fuel industry. I think they'll be just fine without our help, and encouraging the development of alternatives can only increase our freedom.

 

[Deleted member 371759]

I can't recall anyone posting that they care about what you drive. In fact, until you told me in the last sentence of this post, I didn't know what you drive.

I enjoy discussions about the relative merits of different technology, but if it's getting so personal that I'm hurting your feelings, I'll stop.

The reason I posted on this thread is primarily to point out the faulty reasoning of equating dependence on global oil companies with personal freedom, and also claiming that producing and using your own energy is in some way knuckling under to government pressure.

I hope I inspired a few people think about whether it makes sense for consumers who have no other option to rabidly defend the fossil fuel industry. I think they'll be just fine without our help, and encouraging the development of alternatives can only increase our freedom.

It takes a lot more than someone I dont know whos opinion i value less than my morning coffee to hurt my feelings. If you would like to trade global oil companies for authoritarian tech companies that is up to you. No one said anything about no benefits of producing your own energy good on ya. If you some how think that the development of technology over the last 20 years has increased our freedom I really don't know what to tell you. I would be all in on a open sourced vehicle whos code can be inspected, changed and the vehicle used in any way you want. Thats not what you or we are getting. We are getting closed sourced giant cell phones with more freedom destroying technology than ever seen before.

 

[nickfank]

If you would like to trade global oil companies for authoritarian tech companies that is up to you.

That would be a terrible idea! I'm glad I didn't say that. <grin>

 

[Deleted member 371759]

That would be a terrible idea! I'm glad I didn't say that. <grin>

But you did. You said

encouraging the development of alternatives can only increase our freedom.

How will close sourced software designed by giant tech corporations increase your freedom? These companies have already proven by past behavior they care zero about your freedom and will do anything they can to mine your data and attempt to influence society. I would say that the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. First thing I do when I get a new PC/laptop is wipe windos and install Linux, first thing I dowhen I get a new router is wipe the OS and install OpenWrt first thing I do when I get a new cell phone is wipe the OS and install a custom ROM with no Google spyware tracking apps. Give me a electric car that will let me anonymously travel and I may not be against the technology.