5w40 Syn - even if warranty calls for 10w30??

[KennedyDiesel]

My analysis was performed by Predictive Maintenance. Many of my analysis were actually ferrographic. It's been quite a while now so I don't recall teh details, but the results said watch out, I switched, and things improved greatly.

Somewhere in the mix I added Harvard bypass filtration and ended up with SUPER low particle counts actually using ISO stds.

The lube engineer that I worked with recently passed but essentially we saw enough to know we were doing well and discontinued the expensive testing. That and the truck's duties being changed from on road to competition demanded shorter drain intervals based on low miles driven and high soot accumulation.

 

[sw03]

My analysis was performed by Predictive Maintenance. Many of my analysis were actually ferrographic. It's been quite a while now so I don't recall teh details, but the results said watch out, I switched, and things improved greatly.

Somewhere in the mix I added Harvard bypass filtration and ended up with SUPER low particle counts actually using ISO stds.

The lube engineer that I worked with recently passed but essentially we saw enough to know we were doing well and discontinued the expensive testing. That and the truck's duties being changed from on road to competition demanded shorter drain intervals based on low miles driven and high soot accumulation.

Cool but what super low particle count? Never heard that before. Also you used ASL in you truck? If you have high soot, it is not the oils fault. Seems like filtrationm which you did was the issue, not the oil.

 

[SunnyJim]

If you have never heard of a particle count have a read. Particle Count - When to Use it and Why?

Don't forget HDD is a 5W-30. AMSOIL - Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil (HDD) If it was a single analysis I may dismiss it, you really need a trend to be certain of how an oil is performing.

I should add it sounds like he was having ferrography done as well so he would be able to really tell what was wearing with each oil. Analytical Ferrography Tells “the Rest of the Story”

All of these tests would have increased the cost.

 

[sw03]

If you have never heard of a particle count have a read. Particle Count - When to Use it and Why?

Don't forget HDD is a 5W-30. AMSOIL - Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil (HDD) If it was a single analysis I may dismiss it, you really need a trend to be certain of how an oil is performing.

I should add it sounds like he was having ferrography done as well so he would be able to really tell what was wearing with each oil. Analytical Ferrography Tells 鍍he Rest of the Story納/url]

All of these tests would have increased the cost.

How do you know this person installed HDD? He never said that and that is why I asked him several times (no answer). I also do not think Seriess 3000 was used since that is no way Amsoils best was poor compared to Mobil..Just the baseline oils and adds are way diff. Not saying he is wrong but hard to see it.

I agree with you on the trend and that is why I asked him about it before. Funny how people use UOA here and then stop..Oil performance is the #2 reason..then people stop the testing due to cost...Funny all Army/Marines trucks use UOA and no drains (per the manual).

Then throw soot into it, soot is not related to oil but how good the filter is. Hence, you could take a China-mart oil on a bypass and work really well since heat etc are low on diesel (per say).

 

[Hematite]

sw03:
Thanks for bringing up a very important point. Engine oil heating IS low on a diesel engine. I changed the oil on my NH after working it for 2 hours in 75 degree weather. The oil was just barely warm. A gas engine run under these conditions would be producing some noticeably hot oil.

Someone mentioned "thermal breakdown" on this thread related to diesel engine oil in the Summer. I don't see how it is possible from my experience. On the Amsoil site they make recommendations for extending oil changes from what the engine manufacturer recommends and it's a 3x extension for a diesel engine versus a 2x for gas engines. I'm sure that the much higher engine oil temps in a gas engine are the reason for this.

 

[KennedyDiesel]

Not sure what you are referring to as ASL?

The oil that I ran was the HDD. Said to be Amsoil's best at the time. While I agree more analysis is necessary to show a trend why stick with something that isn't working? The HDD actually had moderate load and a long trip of highway non towing miles to BC Canada and back on it. After the trip and change I went to the Mobil and things changed immediately.

It's been a long time since this was done (2002-2004) but we had a relatively new engine running petroleum oils with wear metals on a downward trend. This jumped up with the HDD but then went down with D1. Eventually I went to the Harvard bypass and Filtermag and dropped this to VERY low levels.

I also increased the power quite substantially in 2004 or so and pretty much dicontinued testing as soot contamination became an issue so I ended up running shorter drain intervals. I had ISO counts of 17/15/10 on 9,000 mile sampling and I believe I had some at 15/13/10. As I recall I could also see EXACTLY where I made the switch to a cotton gauze air cleaner as silicon levels jumped instantly.


This engine was 240 RWHP and in 2005 I ran it at 730+RWHP and did so numerous times since. While it would have been neat to follow how the wear trends played out it just wasn't practical to spend money testing low mileage oils with high soot. I had seen enough to know that the Harvard bypass was doing it's job...

A diesel will typically put a LOT of heat in the oil depending how hard it is working. This is why you see more diesels with engine oil coolers than gasoline engines. This is true for both turbo and non turbo engines.

 

[sw03]

Not sure what you are referring to as ASL?

The oil that I ran was the HDD. Said to be Amsoil's best at the time. While I agree more analysis is necessary to show a trend why stick with something that isn't working? The HDD actually had moderate load and a long trip of highway non towing miles to BC Canada and back on it. After the trip and change I went to the Mobil and things changed immediately.

It's been a long time since this was done (2002-2004) but we had a relatively new engine running petroleum oils with wear metals on a downward trend. This jumped up with the HDD but then went down with D1. Eventually I went to the Harvard bypass and Filtermag and dropped this to VERY low levels.

I also increased the power quite substantially in 2004 or so and pretty much dicontinued testing as soot contamination became an issue so I ended up running shorter drain intervals. I had ISO counts of 17/15/10 on 9,000 mile sampling and I believe I had some at 15/13/10. As I recall I could also see EXACTLY where I made the switch to a cotton gauze air cleaner as silicon levels jumped instantly.


This engine was 240 RWHP and in 2005 I ran it at 730+RWHP and did so numerous times since. While it would have been neat to follow how the wear trends played out it just wasn't practical to spend money testing low mileage oils with high soot. I had seen enough to know that the Harvard bypass was doing it's job...

A diesel will typically put a LOT of heat in the oil depending how hard it is working. This is why you see more diesels with engine oil coolers than gasoline engines. This is true for both turbo and non turbo engines.

You should know what ASL is since you are a dealer. Also you just stated what HDD was and you are the first dealer I have know to call it this. Most call it Series 3000 when selling it and not HDD. Also how long have you been a dealer since it sound like you just signed up. No knocking ya, but you are so pro Mobil in your first to this post but are a dealer. Does not make sense.

Also you do not have a baseline like I stated several times before? Sound like no now and if you are basing an oil on a non-baseline, you are not getting a true reading. Even your UOA engineer should have told you this. Do not take this the wrong way but sounds like UOA are not your selling point since you are missing major issue when talking here.

My point again was you could use any oil and get low soot reading with a bypass. Plus you can MAKE a 5w-40 very easy using any oil. There were so many things you changed I would not base anything on anything at this point. Even the junk oil glaze filter will mess them up. A bad BARO sensor, poor glow glow relay (or grid) and peoples beloved PS additive will add to wear number bigtime. etc etc. Even what adds you put in will do this.

I am not saying switch but things do not make sence. Also seems like people keep missing the point with UOA. They primary was not invented to test oil. I pull 1 to 2 a year, an auto since I have been saved by UOA's.

If using a turbo I will take Amsoil over mobil due to the typ issues with turbo;s and both virgin UOA on the oils.

YMMV...have fun folks

 

[sw03]

sw03:
Thanks for bringing up a very important point. Engine oil heating IS low on a diesel engine. I changed the oil on my NH after working it for 2 hours in 75 degree weather. The oil was just barely warm. A gas engine run under these conditions would be producing some noticeably hot oil.

Someone mentioned "thermal breakdown" on this thread related to diesel engine oil in the Summer. I don't see how it is possible from my experience. On the Amsoil site they make recommendations for extending oil changes from what the engine manufacturer recommends and it's a 3x extension for a diesel engine versus a 2x for gas engines. I'm sure that the much higher engine oil temps in a gas engine are the reason for this.

Unless you are running non-stock (mods), turbo aside; basic compact tractor heat will not be an issue. It is NOT possibile on a diesel. Diesels killers are fuel, soot and maybe wear but most time it is the first two.

Turbo will be heat from coking etc.

I am not an expert but I trust amsoil dealer almost zero and do talk to tribologists weekly, diesel mfg at times etc.

 

[KennedyDiesel]

You should know what ASL is since you are a dealer. Also you just stated what HDD was and you are the first dealer I have know to call it this. Most call it Series 3000 when selling it and not HDD. Also how long have you been a dealer since it sound like you just signed up. No knocking ya, but you are so pro Mobil in your first to this post but are a dealer. Does not make sense.

Also you do not have a baseline like I stated several times before? Sound like no now and if you are basing an oil on a non-baseline, you are not getting a true reading. Even your UOA engineer should have told you this. Do not take this the wrong way but sounds like UOA are not your selling point since you are missing major issue when talking here.

My point again was you could use any oil and get low soot reading with a bypass. Plus you can MAKE a 5w-40 very easy using any oil. There were so many things you changed I would not base anything on anything at this point. Even the junk oil glaze filter will mess them up. A bad BARO sensor, poor glow glow relay (or grid) and peoples beloved PS additive will add to wear number bigtime. etc etc. Even what adds you put in will do this.

I am not saying switch but things do not make sence. Also seems like people keep missing the point with UOA. They primary was not invented to test oil. I pull 1 to 2 a year, an auto since I have been saved by UOA's.

If using a turbo I will take Amsoil over mobil due to the typ issues with turbo;s and both virgin UOA on the oils.

YMMV...have fun folks

Sorry, I didn't get mt B.S. in BS from Amsoil U.

I don't recall when I started, but it's been several years now. Well before the no online direct sales policy came in. 2002 if not earlier I would say.

Soot is not the issue here. Sorry I mentioned it, but I think if you re-read my posts you'll see that I discontinued analysis due to soot loading and use/abuse requiring a more frequent dump intervals.

I used my sampling to test engine wear as we crept the power levels up. We did not like what we saw so we switched oils. Just common sense. When a lube engineer that I know and trust states that a 40w has proven to provide better cushioning for the shock loads of a compression ignited engine I listen. Hard to find ANY diesel oil in 30w these days.

Along the way we started to mess with the Donaldson filter setup. We were seeing good results, but now wanted to extend the drain intervals.


P.S. The same lube engineer was very quick to point out successes that he had with the Amsoil EA (Donaldson) oil filters when they first came out. He highly recommended them.

I'll put it simply.

Delo 400= good results with declining wear metals
Amsoil 5w30= not so good results with increased wear metals.
Mobil Delvac 1= excellent results with declining wear metals

If I were to run Amsoil it would carry a 40w suffix.


I'm not for sale to anyone nor do I have unwavering loyalty to anyone in the oil biz. No Amsoil tattoo on my ***. No red white and blue amsoil shirts although I do have an Amsoil hat that was given at the Diesel Power Challenge this year.

 

[sw03]

Sorry, I didn't get mt B.S. in BS from Amsoil U.

I don't recall when I started, but it's been several years now. Well before the no online direct sales policy came in. 2002 if not earlier I would say.

Soot is not the issue here. Sorry I mentioned it, but I think if you re-read my posts you'll see that I discontinued analysis due to soot loading and use/abuse requiring a more frequent dump intervals.

I used my sampling to test engine wear as we crept the power levels up. We did not like what we saw so we switched oils. Just common sense. When a lube engineer that I know and trust states that a 40w has proven to provide better cushioning for the shock loads of a compression ignited engine I listen. Hard to find ANY diesel oil in 30w these days.

Along the way we started to mess with the Donaldson filter setup. We were seeing good results, but now wanted to extend the drain intervals.


P.S. The same lube engineer was very quick to point out successes that he had with the Amsoil EA (Donaldson) oil filters when they first came out. He highly recommended them.

I'll put it simply.

Delo 400= good results with declining wear metals
Amsoil 5w30= not so good results with increased wear metals.
Mobil Delvac 1= excellent results with declining wear metals

If I were to run Amsoil it would carry a 40w suffix.


I'm not for sale to anyone nor do I have unwavering loyalty to anyone in the oil biz. No Amsoil tattoo on my ***. No red white and blue amsoil shirts although I do have an Amsoil hat that was given at the Diesel Power Challenge this year.

My point was, and still is you can MAKE your own Amsoil 5w-30, -40 watchever you want..Not to hard and very easy.

What does not make sense, along with others is you "discontinued analysis" as soot increased?. Does not make sense. But how do you know it is a linear trend? The complete UOA is all over the place.

To me you sound like you are not following Amsoil rules nor do I care; but, could you post your ZO? I have seen many since I remember their lifetime membership for very little.

Also your results are great (for you engine, envir, after market issues etc) but I do not take posts as it. Only a few here show there UOA and 95% do not. I remember a member here, now banned that showed one oil great and one poor. Then you could throw in tolernaces of engine, SPC, etc and UOA do not mean much other then the user.

You still seem new since you are still posting Amsoil 5w-30 (you did not know what ASL was...WOW) when they make more then one.. Nevermind a $30 a gallon oil performs less then a $12 walmart one...Something is wrong..