6.0vs6.6, 6.2vs7.3, 6.4 Hemi

[WilliamBos]

All of the Ram MDS-related failures I personally know of happened between 90k-125k miles. These we’re all fleet-maintained and our maintenance shop is well supplied, well funded, and well educated.

Personally, I wouldn’t keep a Ram with MDS longer than 100k miles, unless it had MDS disabled right out the gate. Even then, it’s an unknown, since I have zero experience with that setup.

Still better than the GM cylinder deactivation. The previous Actuve Fuel Management cut the cylinders in half. These were known to develop oil consumption issues around 40k-70k miles. The easier the driver treated the vehicle, the worse it was. Due to this, I put the Range Technologies on my 2013 Silverado 5.3L at 3,500 miles, right when I bought it. I traded it at 41k miles and it never had any oil consumption issues.

The current GM Dynamic Fuel Management is capable of using a combination of any cylinders. This system will let the V8 run on one cylinder, if it thinks it can do it. The only good thing about this system versus the older AFM is the AFM always stopped the same cylinders. The DFM can alternate what cylinders it stops.

The shop bought a few new GM 5.3L half tons with DFM. The first engine to go was at a little over 40k. After that engine was replaced, they started having trouble with another truck. That truck had fewer miles, but also got a new engine. It has now been decided no more half tons will be purchased, at all. They will exclusively buy F-250/2500 series in place of half tons, to stay away from the stuff that breaks.

As of 2021, the 5.0;Coyote will run a form of AFM. So the only way to avoid it is to go GM or Ford HD/SD.

I looked at deleting the MDS on my 17 Ram 1500, was going to cost just over $7,000.

Good luck doing this now, the PCM are so secure that doing this delete is nearly impossible.

 

[nikerret]

As of 2021, the 5.0;Coyote will run a form of AFM. So the only way to avoid it is to go GM or Ford HD/SD.

I looked at deleting the MDS on my 17 Ram 1500, was going to cost just over $7,000.

Good luck doing this now, the PCM are so secure that doing this delete is nearly impossible.

I’m not familiar with the new Ford 5.0L. I know the 5.0L, of the last couple of generations, had reports of some issues with oil consumption, in the trucks. For some reason, the Mustangs using the same engine (different tune, maybe some small part differences) didn’t have as widespread reporting on that issue.

The prevailing theory on that was the engines needed to be run hard, to properly seat the rings. Moreso than other engines. People who towed a lot or hit-rodded, right out the gate, didn’t seem to have the problems. The people who just putz’d around did.

If I had to choose between the Ford 5.0L and the 3.5L EB, I would choose the 5.0L, for overall reliability. The 3.5L is a powerhouse, but I wouldn’t want to be in charge of repairs.

To the Ram MDS, it seems Ram has made it more difficult to bypass, without a tune that will void your warranty. How was that going to cost you $7,000?!? Wow! For that money, you can add forced induction, which most kits replace the cylinder deactivation parts. Most shops should be able to do a tune for $400-1,500.

Are you aware of the Range Technologies I referenced, earlier? When I looked, earlier, they didn’t have much, for Ram. I know they are working on it, though. It’s a really cool thing. You plug it into the OBD II port and all it does is tell the engine not to switch cylinders off. When you unplug it, everything continues to work, like it was never there. On the GM’s with AFM, there was no way the dealer could find out you used it, except, they might wonder why your engine never used V4 mode.

 

[WilliamBos]

I’m not familiar with the new Ford 5.0L. I know the 5.0L, of the last couple of generations, had reports of some issues with oil consumption, in the trucks. For some reason, the Mustangs using the same engine (different tune, maybe some small part differences) didn’t have as widespread reporting on that issue.

The prevailing theory on that was the engines needed to be run hard, to properly seat the rings. Moreso than other engines. People who towed a lot or hit-rodded, right out the gate, didn’t seem to have the problems. The people who just putz’d around did.

If I had to choose between the Ford 5.0L and the 3.5L EB, I would choose the 5.0L, for overall reliability. The 3.5L is a powerhouse, but I wouldn’t want to be in charge of repairs.

To the Ram MDS, it seems Ram has made it more difficult to bypass, without a tune that will void your warranty. How was that going to cost you $7,000?!? Wow! For that money, you can add forced induction, which most kits replace the cylinder deactivation parts. Most shops should be able to do a tune for $400-1,500.

Are you aware of the Range Technologies I referenced, earlier? When I looked, earlier, they didn’t have much, for Ram. I know they are working on it, though. It’s a really cool thing. You plug it into the OBD II port and all it does is tell the engine not to switch cylinders off. When you unplug it, everything continues to work, like it was never there. On the GM’s with AFM, there was no way the dealer could find out you used it, except, they might wonder why your engine never used V4 mode.

I was deleting it mechanically, cam & hellcat lifters, mds solonoid plugs, timing chain, locking out the cam phazer, head gaskets, studs, shorty headers as oem manifolds are crap, and the tune which included unlocking the PCM. Add labor and taxes, $7,000

A software delete does not solve the problem, nor do gimmicks like the Range. The MDS lifters are problematic, best to delete them.

 

[nikerret]

I was deleting it mechanically, cam & hellcat lifters, mds solonoid plugs, timing chain, locking out the cam phazer, head gaskets, studs, shorty headers as oem manifolds are crap, and the tune which included unlocking the PCM. Add labor and taxes, $7,000

A software delete does not solve the problem, nor do gimmicks like the Range. The MDS lifters are problematic, best to delete them.

Well, that would definitely be doing it right! I see how you got a $7k bid. For that price, you can do a lot of things.

In regard to the Range Technologies, on the GM AFM engines, the parts themselves don’t seem to be the problem as much as the time it’s utilized. Same for software, on the GM’s. Everyone I’ve heard/read about using them has not had the issues. Yes, it would be best to replace all of the AFM parts, but that would be expensive and, in the GM’s, unnecessary. Of course, not everyone who uses the AFM, as designed has issues and there are likely people who got tunes or used the Range and still had issues, but for some reason, I haven’t seen any of those reports.
Same stuff in regard to the GM DFM….no idea.

 

[dodge man]

As of 2018 they changed the way the cylinder liners are done on the Ford 5.0. The earlier ones have traditional liner installed in the block and the 2018 and newer some kind of high technology welded in liners that are a coating.

I have a 2010 Challenger that I turned off the MDS with a tuner. It just plugs into the OBD port. That was the last year you could do that. Years after that you had to replace the computer with an unlocked one, so it went from costing $200 to over a $1000. I know at some model year they were having trouble getting anyway at all to get the PCM unlocked or a way to install a tune or turn off MDS.

 

[MechanicalGuy]

I would suggest not just assuming “more gears is better”. I’m not saying you are, but some people have a “more is always better” mentality.
Vehicles are very complex and seemingly more so every year.

Simplicity to make repairs more affordable is not even considered anymore.
I have early 2000’s farm tractors. They still break and they still cost plenty to fix, but the new ones???? Wow!

Ive pretty much reached the point where if you buy a new vehicle, you better make sure it’s got ample warranty coverage, because you can’t fix much of anything anymore.

More gears are better if you're stuck with a 6 speed. That's a fact. Even your beloved Ram is aware of that fact and will feature at least 2 more gears in the very near future.

 

[nikerret]

In a previous thread, I was looking at a gas 3/4 ton with the 6.0. I am finding some from all 3 with the newer gas engines for not a big money difference. What are your thoughts on the above comparisons? New are better? Junk? Let me know

Well, was this thread in any way helpful?

 

[WilliamBos]

More gears are better if you're stuck with a 6 speed. That's a fact. Even your beloved Ram is aware of that fact and will feature at least 2 more gears in the very near future.

The gas Ram HD now has the ZF 8HP70 8 speed auto, won't be long before the Cummins has at least two more speeds.

 

[deerefan]

Well, was this thread in any way helpful?

It was. I am still leaning toward the 6.0, but have widened my search to include the 7.3.

 

[nikerret]

It was. I am still leaning toward the 6.0, but have widened my search to include the 7.3.

If you’re looking at used, the 7.3L is going to be few and not a lot, in between. It’s just too new and the current crazy has made the market worse. Really, you should do some research on the Ford 6.2L. It’s in the eleventh year of use with an excellent track record. Not as long as the GM 6.0L, or the Ford 6.8L V10, but it would be the third longest choice. Check on the Ford-centric forums, about the Ford 6.2L.