6013 vs 7014 vs 7018

[MF RED in MT]

Must sleep on a waterbed........... I made all sorts of stuff with bed frames, small atv trailers, atv racks, shelf brackets, anything I want strong and yet light......

No waterbed for me, when I see a bed frame at the local thrift store for a couple of bucks, I'll get it and use it like I said, and also use it for shelving in the garage (ledger support at the wall).

I have certified to many times with 1/8" 7018 during my past working career and have burned a truck load of rod for the required project, but "for me" I like it simple now a days that's why I have a Miller "AutoSet" with shielded gas.

Like I said if I need something different due to the environment, I'll use the mig with flux core wire.

It's ok with me that you and others find a different comfort zone for welding, and each has different projects, etc...

KC

edit: Also I remember that most of the specifications I was involved with were wrote in the 60s almost all for stick welding. Then in the late 70s-80s most of the specifications were wrote for mig welding in the shop and then stick welding in the field. And finally a lot of the specifications were wrote to include mig welding in the field (as applicable), because in my opinion it was a industrial manufacturing companies way to reduce labor cost...

 

[Oldpath05]

No waterbed for me, when I see a bed frame at the local thrift store for a couple of bucks, I'll get it and use it like I said, and also use it for shelving in the garage (ledger support at the wall).

I have certified to many times with 1/8" 7018 during my past working career and have burned a truck load of rod for the required project, but "for me" I like it simple now a days that's why I have a Miller "AutoSet" with shielded gas.

Like I said if I need something different due to the environment, I'll use the mig with flux core wire.

It's ok with me that you and others find a different comfort zone for welding, and each has different projects, etc...

KC

edit: Also I remember that most of the specifications I was involved with were wrote in the 60s almost all for stick welding. Then in the late 70s-80s most of the specifications were wrote for mig welding in the shop and then stick welding in the field. And finally a lot of the specifications were wrote to include mig welding in the field (as applicable), because in my opinion it was a industrial manufacturing companies way to reduce labor cost...

I have the Miller 211 with auto set, I like it, set it on .030 and steel thickness and the heat is right on. I'm no fan of of self shielding flux wire, I guess its ok for outside work but to spattery for me....

 

[Oldpath05]

I currently have an Idealarc 400, and just recently added an Invertec V-155. I made a thread on it the other day.

You like the best dont you especially in the color red, wow that machine is 7k+. Impressive 500 amps, you have carbon arc gouger for the Idealarc? Here's a 35 year old Dialarc a 3rd cousin once removed, at best its 310 amp but on 240 volt its probably around 250 amps..........


Your not going to make me look that thread up are you, to much searching makes my head hurt.......

 

[MF RED in MT]

I have the Miller 211 with auto set, I like it, set it on .030 and steel thickness and the heat is right on. I'm no fan of of self shielding flux wire, I guess its ok for outside work but to spattery for me....

Ya for AutoSet, purchased my Miller 140 about 10 years ago (think they have change model number with newer welders), almost got the dual voltage AutoSet one (Miller 180) which would of made a few projects finish a little quicker because of amps and duty cycle, but oh well got em done with the 140...

And being retired for a while does not matter when things take a little longer (each year seems to add more time?).

I remember years ago at work, all of the mig welders had so many pencil/felt marker reference lines it was crazy back in the day (also the stick machines and tig machines).

KC

edit: I forgot on one field project we use flux core wire for the whole project and when the duty cycle and amps are enough it makes for a very very long piece of welding rod, but yes it's a dirty finished product.

 

[Oldpath05]

Ya for AutoSet, purchased my Miller 140 about 10 years ago (think they have change model number with newer welders), almost got the dual voltage AutoSet one (Miller 180) which would of made a few projects finish a little quicker because of amps and duty cycle, but oh well got em done with the 140...

And being retired for a while does not matter when things take a little longer (each year seems to add more time?).

I remember years ago at work, all of the mig welders had so many pencil/felt marker reference lines it was crazy back in the day (also the stick machines and tig machines).

KC

edit: I forgot on one field project we use flux core wire for the whole project and when the duty cycle and amps are enough it makes for a very very long piece of welding rod, but yes it's a dirty finished product.

I think I have the same stile as yours, mine is 7 years old, think they changed a little in 2015. It almost seem like to get more duty cycle one has to by a bigger welder with more amperage, but I dont need more amperage just more duty cycle, once in a while I need to weld 1 hr without much stopping, I cant remember but think its around 10 min/hour.

Must be to much to ask for to use .030-035 non stop on small machines, have buy something that burns .045-.052 to weld .035 non stop, now you have a big welder that hard to move around, the 211 Miller is very portable. But then again when I retire in a couple years it wont matter, after 35 years of welding I had enough, by then anything that will need more then 10 min of welding will require a 1 hour break, maybe 2 hr...........

 

[deereman75]

My idealarc is sure nothing fancy.... It's a 1960s vintage one I purchased used a number of years ago. No air arc, I like using plasma gouging for disassembly and weld removal. Especially around the shop. Much cleaner and quieter.

Thread on the Invertec should be in the top 6 or so, it's only a few days old.

You like the best dont you especially in the color red, wow that machine is 7k+. Impressive 500 amps, you have carbon arc gouger for the Idealarc? Here's a 35 year old Dialarc a 3rd cousin once removed, at best its 310 amp but on 240 volt its probably around 250 amps..........
View attachment 675002 View attachment 675003

Your not going to make me look that thread up are you, to much searching makes my head hurt.......

 

[deereman75]

That's exactly why I bought a 260 for my mig. I rarely run it over half it's output, but I never have to worry about duty cycle. The more industrial gun the large machines come with is nice as well, although I suppose that could be changed on any machine.

I think I have the same stile as yours, mine is 7 years old, think they changed a little in 2015. It almost seem like to get more duty cycle one has to by a bigger welder with more amperage, but I dont need more amperage just more duty cycle, once in a while I need to weld 1 hr without much stopping, I cant remember but think its around 10 min/hour.

Must be to much to ask for to use .030-035 non stop on small machines, have buy something that burns .045-.052 to weld .035 non stop, now you have a big welder that hard to move around, the 211 Miller is very portable. But then again when I retire in a couple years it wont matter, after 35 years of welding I had enough, by then anything that will need more then 10 min of welding will require a 1 hour break, maybe 2 hr...........

 

[Oldpath05]

My idealarc is sure nothing fancy.... It's a 1960s vintage one I purchased used a number of years ago. No air arc, I like using plasma gouging for disassembly and weld removal. Especially around the shop. Much cleaner and quieter.

Thread on the Invertec should be in the top 6 or so, it's only a few days old.

WOW you must be at antique level should post a pic. I havent seen a 1960s Idealarc in 50 years it looked something like this........

 

[MF RED in MT]

WOW you must be at antique level should post a pic. I havent seen a 1960s Idealarc in 50 years it looked something like this........
View attachment 675026

I believe my newer neighbor has one that the previous owner left in the garage (previous owner did not use because of health issues), but the newer neighbor does not know how to weld...

And my Miller 140 AutoSet at maximum amps, 140 (is it can really get that?) has a 10% duty cycle which is about equal to my duty cycle now a days before I need to sit and take a break.

KC

 

[Oldpath05]

I believe my newer neighbor has one that the previous owner left in the garage (previous owner did not use because of health issues), but the newer neighbor does not know how to weld...

And my Miller 140 AutoSet at maximum amps, 140 (is it can really get that?) has a 10% duty cycle which is about equal to my duty cycle now a days before I need to sit and take a break.

KC

And the newer neighbor is getting tied of looking at it so he list on Free For The Taken........ My Miller211 is the same stile as your Miller140, just a hair more oomph and lot more $$, might be the next size up, they still make the 211 but different smaller version I assume it has the same out-put. Sounds like our duty cycle is about the same, comes with age....
Miller Millermatic 14 MIG Welder with Auto-Set for sale (97335) - Welding Supplies from IOC

Miller Millermatic 211 MIG Welder with Advanced Auto-Set for sale (97614) - Welding Supplies from IOC

 

[MF RED in MT]

And the newer neighbor is getting tied of looking at it so he list on Free For The Taken........ My Miller211 is the same stile as your Miller140, just a hair more oomph and lot more $$, might be the next size up, they still make the 211 but different smaller version I assume it has the same out-put. Sounds like our duty cycle is about the same, comes with age....
Miller Millermatic 14 MIG Welder with Auto-Set for sale (97335) - Welding Supplies from IOC

Miller Millermatic 211 MIG Welder with Advanced Auto-Set for sale (97614) - Welding Supplies from IOC

I don't know if he'd give it away as he has plenty of room in his garage where mine is pretty full.

Yes that 140 AutoSet is exactly like mine, I purchased new in May 2010 for $649 and I think the Miller 180 AuotSet dual voltage was about $950 at that time.

My lifetime lease for a 80 cubic ft argon/co2 bottle was $200 full, and when I purchase another 80 cubic ft bottle of argon for tig welding it was $250 about 5 years ago,

Now I see your can purchase bottles empty from Amazon for about $160.

KC

 

[Oldpath05]

I bought my 125 75/25 bottle 2 years ago for a whopping $290.00, refils are $65.00 extra $20.00 delivered, at 35-40mi away I usually pay for the delivery.

 

[MF RED in MT]

I bought my 125 75/25 bottle 2 years ago for a whopping $290.00, refils are $65.00 extra $20.00 delivered, at 35-40mi away I usually pay for the delivery.
View attachment 675100

I have 3 gas/welding supply businesses about 65 miles away.

If I can remember correctly you would have to be careful about your bottle purchase because they would only exchange certain specific manufactured bottles?

KC

 

[Tractor Seabee]

You like the best dont you especially in the color red, wow that machine is 7k+. Impressive 500 amps, you have carbon arc gouger for the Idealarc? Here's a 35 year old Dialarc a 3rd cousin once removed, at best its 310 amp but on 240 volt its probably around 250 amps..........
View attachment 675002 View attachment 675003

Your not going to make me look that thread up are you, to much searching makes my head hurt.......

I have a Dial Arc. At max amps it really needs a 100A circuit hooked to 240V. 480 volts it is half that. On a 50Amp circuit I can get 180-200 Amps w/o tripping the breaker. They are a real power hog. The rectifier throws off a lot of heat energy. I will, up for sale soon as It is too much for what I do now. My little Monkey Ward 230 Amp AC/DC machine does everything I need running on a 50 Amp Circuit.

Back to the OPs original; I have not followed the full, thread. Was there ever much consensus? Like was said early on, it is an individual preference. I worked the pipe trade in my early life. The 7018 came about because ASME and AWS set up standard weld procedures which called out 7018 for the passes after the root which was always 6010. I did a lot of work where we used 6010 all they way. 6010 strength matches A36 pipe strength so some of us saw no reason to use 7018 unless specified. 7018 became popular with pipe welders that like down-hand welding which came from the pipeline part of the trade and it caught on for industrial work also. Down-hand welders swear it runs easier that any of the non-hydrogen coatings. I was always an up-hand guy so I saw no difference. There are upwards of 8-9 low-hy rods. Some have special applications. Lincolns Arc Welding Manual has a good dialog on lo-hy. We never used any 60k rods other than 6010 except when a smooth cap was desired then used 6013 or 6014. Fleetweld 5P (6010) was the go to product.

Ron

 

[bindian]

T6 is stronger (tapping on welding table produces a higher pitch sound) but only 6061 can be formed...

KC

That isn't quite right. Given a large enough radius, 7076-T6 can be bent 90 degrees. I used to work on helicopter structures and we had to make new instrument panels for Single Pilot IRF on Sikorsky S-76s. The panel's frame was made for .063" 7075-T6. When we had to bend in two different flanges, 90 degrees apart, we would lay out the part so the grain bent at 45 degree angles. It worked, with finesse, but we also scrapped out a lot of cracked frame members.

On DC-9 fuselage frame repairs, we would form 6061-0 over two curved wooden blocks. We would make extras as the heat treating process sometimes distorted the part too much to use. Ahhh, the good old days.
hugs, Brandi

 

[MF RED in MT]

That isn't quite right. Given a large enough radius, 7076-T6 can be bent 90 degrees. I used to work on helicopter structures and we had to make new instrument panels for Single Pilot IRF on Sikorsky S-76s. The panel's frame was made for .063" 7075-T6. When we had to bend in two different flanges, 90 degrees apart, we would lay out the part so the grain bent at 45 degree angles. It worked, with finesse, but we also scrapped out a lot of cracked frame members.

On DC-9 fuselage frame repairs, we would form 6061-0 over two curved wooden blocks. We would make extras as the heat treating process sometimes distorted the part too much to use. Ahhh, the good old days.
hugs, Brandi

Wow, that seems pretty low tech for a couple of birds that can fall out of the sky, but I believe you.

We however, had zero percent success in forming 7075/T6 Aluminum cold and in it's normal state.

And it was not worth the labor cost to try to annealed the material then heat treat it again after forming.

Yes, and forming materials "over two curved wooden blocks" brings back memory's of some weird forming dies for our presses made from varies materials other then steel...

KC

 

[GeneV]

I have a Dial Arc. At max amps it really needs a 100A circuit hooked to 240V. 480 volts it is half that. On a 50Amp circuit I can get 180-200 Amps w/o tripping the breaker. They are a real power hog. The rectifier throws off a lot of heat energy. I will, up for sale soon as It is too much for what I do now. My little Monkey Ward 230 Amp AC/DC machine does everything I need running on a 50 Amp Circuit.

Back to the OPs original; I have not followed the full, thread. Was there ever much consensus? Like was said early on, it is an individual preference. I worked the pipe trade in my early life. The 7018 came about because ASME and AWS set up standard weld procedures which called out 7018 for the passes after the root which was always 6010. I did a lot of work where we used 6010 all they way. 6010 strength matches A36 pipe strength so some of us saw no reason to use 7018 unless specified. 7018 became popular with pipe welders that like down-hand welding which came from the pipeline part of the trade and it caught on for industrial work also. Down-hand welders swear it runs easier that any of the non-hydrogen coatings. I was always an up-hand guy so I saw no difference. There are upwards of 8-9 low-hy rods. Some have special applications. Lincolns Arc Welding Manual has a good dialog on lo-hy. We never used any 60k rods other than 6010 except when a smooth cap was desired then used 6013 or 6014. Fleetweld 5P (6010) was the go to product.

Ron

Thanks man, I guess that backs up my thought that 6010/11 for sure + 6013 or 7014 or 7018, take my pick.

 

[MF RED in MT]

Hey Gene,

How's your welding exhaust system working, did you have to adjust anything?

KC

 

[nybirdman]

Mig has it's place;bench work and clean with no wind.Yes I know there is flux core.I worked construction ,mostly our doors and elevated;not the place for mig.
You want to try something difficult ,try Aluminum stick.Tig aluminum isn't too bad,mig can be tough also.

 

[GeneV]

Hey Gene,

How's your welding exhaust system working, did you have to adjust anything?

KC

KC, it worked real good! Only when I was welding close to the floor was when my shop got a bit smoky. I was just too far away from the vent hood at that point. I'm thinking to switch the semi-rigid duct to a flexible duct, which would allow me to easily adjust the height at which the vent hood hangs. Also, when not using it, I would be able to just hang the hood up on a hook on the ceiling w/o having to unbolt anything. Right now, I got to remove the entire semi-rigid duct when not using it, and I damage it a little every time I do it.

I filmed some vids of me welding that snowplow under the extractor, but I'm too busy now with work (finally...this 'rona stuff wrecked work for a while) to put them together and edit them so it can be something interesting to watch.