7018 vs 6013 vs everything else

[rankrank1]

6010 is DC only (and 6011 is its AC equivalent but will never be spec'd for code work). Both are deep penetrating but most importantly fast freezing so they excel at putting metal where there is none like open roots in pipe. Other rods do not always work as well or as easy for this. Also, these rods can handle dirt/rusty metal.

As for why all the rod types: Well each rod has properties that are tailorable to the application and will have benefits that you can use to your advantage for the weld joint . 6013 for example is a very light penetrator so very suitable for thin sheet without burning through. Some rods are more ductile than others so that can be an advantage. Price is a not a factor at all for me as a 5lb box or a 10lb box are basically same price whether 6011, 6013, 7014, and even 7018AC that I buy.

Often though it comes down to your power source. Many cheap power sources definitely will not run 6010 or 7018. 7018AC may run on some cheaper units. Pretty much any power source can run 6011, 6013, 7014, and to an extent 7018AC. That is why all the big box stores stock only these rods for the most part and it is because these rods will run on almost any machine. From here it is use the rod that your skill set can personally run and best suited on the joint design you are welding up. Frankly, I can not weld overhead to save my life, but if I have to do it then I will use 6011 and 6011 is by far my least favorite rod to run for me personally but I would need the fast freeze propterties of 6011 to have any hopes of success at it and even then it will not be pretty. Dirty rusty metal - again 6011. Crude backyard machining - I like 6013. Some exotic alloy steel then I like 7018AC. Overall ease of use that many people call it "idiot rod" cause it so easy - then give me 7014.

 

[dieselcrawler]

Not knowing that 6010 is DC only, I used some the other day on AC... figured it was close to 6011 I bet it will work. It did. Ugly but did the job on the rust junk I was working on.

I plan to check the welder at work tomorrow... will post it's info, and likely use a lot of new info gained from everybody's input in this thread. Likely to be repairing rusted out frame crossmember on the F350 flatbed at work, then cab corners and rocker panels on it and a F250 ext cab. I do a little bit of everything...

 

[k0ua]

I'd likely opt for the 7018, and use 7014 or 6013 for tacking things, mainly due to ease of restart

I use 7018 for most things, but like to use either 6013 or 7014 for tackup, and use 7014 for filling holes.

My DC welder will run 7018 very well, and the welds look the best using it, and it is heck for stout, so why not use it. ?
It is not the easiest for tacking up, and if the metal is nasty and I don't want to take the time to clean it well, I use 6011.
But for most welds I use 7018

 

[Shield Arc]

I was the project superintendent on this project in California. We built 1-mile of pipe tray on the other side of the causeway in this picture. The welding inspectors would not allow the guy in the rigging gang to tack with anything but 7018. And the 7018 had to be kept in an oven. We had to have 3-ovens on site, and keep a log book for each oven on how many pounds of rod was removed from which oven, how many pounds were put back in the which oven at night, along with times. All just to tack, the welding crew were all using wire feeders.
General Construction Company

 

[Arc weld]

Generally 6010 is used for tacking but for tacks under stress, 7018 is used. 7018 is also used for "hot tacking" where you make a tack and then hit it to suck the pieces together. Common for filling slight gaps in fit up.

Now with Innershield, like I'm guessing was used on Shield Arcs project, specific rods are often specified for tacking prior to welding over them with Innershield. I remember when I used Innershield, that certain rods had to used for tacking so you didn't get porosity or other flaws when the tacks were welded over. This could be the reason for having a very strict regimen regarding the 7018 used for tacking. Could you imagine having to go back and grind out where every tack was to make repairs?ullinghair::duh:

 

[Shield Arc]

On that project I wanted to use Hobart's 21-B. But I couldn't get Hobart to give me a definitive answer in writing to how much wind was allowable. The refinery's welding inspectors had never been around gas less fluxcore before, so they were really holding my feet to the fire with every little detail. We used Lincoln's NR-212, because Lincoln would give a definitive answer to the amount of wind that was allowable.
Strange, in 1982 I used NR-211 on a project in Alaska with 90-MPH winds and no one said a word about too much wind!:confused3:

 

[Arc weld]

"Strange, in 1982 I used NR-211 on a project in Alaska with 90-MPH winds and no one said a word about too much wind!"

They were either too impressed that you could weld in 90 MPH winds!... or staying inside to be out of them.

 

[Shield Arc]

The welding inspector wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed. One day he came up to me and through a little hissy fit, said I was preheating before welding. I laughed at him and said do you see any snow on the ones in front of me you dip ****?

 

[Arc weld]

He must have been related to some big shot.

 

[lilranch2001]

that's not always the case, its not always who you KNOW, its who you.........

 

[Reyer Farms]

I see some of pipefitter/ flange jockeys work! He is amazingly consistent, I'm always in awe of he work.
This is my experience and I confess it is not as versed as others. The engineer will spec the procedure and I have to weld within that spec. Personally I love 7018, but I like 5p too. 6013 is great to learn with and is way cheaper to learn to control that "style" arc for ss than stainless rods. Yep I worked for some very cheap folks. I did a job several years ago that speced 70xx. I used 7018 Excalibur because I had them, if I would have had 7014 guess that tower brace would have been stuck with it. Pipeline hot taps spec 7016 on roots a lot and 7018 cap.
My opinion is learn to weld with them all. Make good welds with them all. General repairs on mild steel any of them are good is used properly. 7018 will take some abuse no doubt. But better rods can only do do much for poor planning, prep, and execution. Surely I can get a Amen!

 

[Arc weld]

Where do you get 7016? It is an earlier low hydrogen electrode before 7018 for the most part but basically the same. A lot of stainless is XXX(L)16 though. In Alberta 6010 is used for most root passes in the field unless it's real critical, then TIG is used. It is good to learn to use all the different rods. You never what you're going to run into. Once you get the hang of 7018, you'll like it more than most other rods. It just needs more practice.

 

[rankrank1]

.... Once you get the hang of 7018, you'll like it more than most other rods. It just needs more practice....

Practice? Pratice? Are we talking about Practice? (semi-famous Allen Inverson interview/rant from a few years ago which sports fans will likely remember).

That is just it. Most of us backyard types do not spend the time practicing like we should (me included). This is yet another reason some of the various rod types do exist. You can grab the rod type that has the best characteristics for the job at hand, will also run well on your welding power source, easy to use with users minimal skill set, and with minimal practice get the job done.

Likely, it will not be to a professional welders code book of using 6010 and 7018. That said, all my ole junk in use around this place has zero 6010 or 7018 welds in it and it is all been repaired just fine without a single weld failure that I have added. (That said, I do not weld on anything that goes up and down the public roads as I do not trust my skill set as worthy of that degree of trust. I am not willing to put in the practice or the formal training to make sure my welds would be roadworthy either. Simply no time in my life for that luxury).

 

[R W]

7016 is readily available in Australia and as far as I know it is used a great deal more than 7018. As stated before 7016 & 7018 are basically the same although to the best of my knowledge
7018s contain more iron powder.
Have only used 7018s once and found them good to use, having a 300amp DC welder probably helped.
When using the engine driven welder (225amp DC) , I have been using 7016s most of the time and as said it just needs practice.

 

[Shield Arc]

I think the only time I ever used 7016 was in 1974. I remember the welds looked like they had a lot of chrome in them, somewhat like stainless steel. I remember the job was all overhead welding, had to stand on the hand rail, and weld with both hands and reach out about as far as you dared, to get the job done. To me the 7016 ran just like 7018, just looked a little different is all.

 

[CNC Dan]

The welding inspectors would not allow the guy in the rigging gang to tack with anything but 7018. And the 7018 had to be kept in an oven. We had to have 3-ovens on site, and keep a log book for each oven on how many pounds of rod was removed from which oven, how many pounds were put back in the which oven at night, along with times. All just to tack, the welding crew were all using wire feeders

That's a good example of "A _little_ knowledge is a dangerous thing"

 

[Reyer Farms]

I bought an ac 225 Lincoln last year from a company I worked for. It's was new they just did not use it. I have enjoyed welding stuff with 6011 and 6013. It's kinda fun, your stuck on tapped settings and you make do. It makes you prep things better, it'd not as easy to walk over stuff. I have fixed trailers , built ramps, repaired all kinda stuff with it. It make the nice welders even nicer!

 

[eastexan]

There's not a thing wrong with a good ol' AC buzzbox welder. I enjoy using mine. And you're right, it is fun.

A lot of farmers used them when I was growing up in the 50's & 60's. And the welding class in high school used an old ac buzzbox that had a carbon arc torch with it. We kids learned to weld and braze using it. A friend and I used it to weld and braze 2 old car hoods together to make a boat, as a class project. That was a lot of fun and we learned a lot doing it.

When I retired a few years ago, I bought a Miller Thunderbolt 225AC and have enjoyed it a lot. I have made projects with it and have done a lot of repairs on farm equipment. I have mistreated it from time to time getting jostled around in the back of my pickup and being accidently left outside, but have never worried about it breaking down on me. It's as reliable as the day is long. :thumbsup:

The only thing I hate is not being able to buy a carbon arc torch for it. They aren't being made anymore. Guess I'll have to make one or find someone that's willing to part with theirs.

 

[rankrank1]

There's not a thing wrong with a good ol' AC buzzbox welder. I enjoy using mine. And you're right, it is fun.

A lot of farmers used them when I was growing up in the 50's & 60's. And the welding class in high school used an old ac buzzbox that had a carbon arc torch with it. We kids learned to weld and braze using it. A friend and I used it to weld and braze 2 old car hoods together to make a boat, as a class project. That was a lot of fun and we learned a lot doing it.

When I retired a few years ago, I bought a Miller Thunderbolt 225AC and have enjoyed it a lot. I have made projects with it and have done a lot of repairs on farm equipment. I have mistreated it from time to time getting jostled around in the back of my pickup and being accidently left outside, but have never worried about it breaking down on me. It's as reliable as the day is long. :thumbsup:

The only thing I hate is not being able to buy a carbon arc torch for it. They aren't being made anymore. Guess I'll have to make one or find someone that's willing to part with theirs.

Yep Good ole AC Buzzbox is needed for a Twin Carbon Arc Torch. I now have 3 Twin Carbon Arc torches ( 1 Wards and 2 Lincolns). Closest thing to a free lunch that exists in this world. I use mine to heat stuff for bending and free rusted nuts. Have yet to use it to silver solder, braze, or flame fill weld. Only consumables are electricity which is cheap compared to Acetylene.

Frankly, I can not tell a world of difference welding on DC to AC at high amp settings. I can usually make either do what I need. That said, I can tell the biggest difference between AC and DC on the lower than 50 amp settings, then I much prefer DC.

 

[R W]

The only thing I hate is not being able to buy a carbon arc torch for it. .[/QUOTE]

Can you get the correct carbon rods.