77 Satoh Beaver S370D wont start, low compression

[HomesteadOC]

Hmmm.. you would think that the 30-60s would be sufficient?? but then again, I was starting w/ a rebuilt/proven fuel system.
Any chance in calling the previous owner & asking him "the trick" to getting it started?
Glow plug count, throttle position.. that sort of thing..

He couldnt get it started, thats why I got it cheap. He had it listed for $3500, but I got it for $2500 with the non-starting discount. I figured the loader and the reverser are worth about that much so Id be ok either way. He said he thought the glow plugs were bad and Ive replaced those. I asked him to test compression and he bad his neighbor do it and reported 10-12, Im assuming that he was looking at a bar scale but he prefaced the reading with its really really low. The previous owner is not really the one to ask, but he asked me to let him know what It turns out to be wrong with it. He had it running through fall of last year, so maybe Ill pick his brain a little on what his starting ritual was. He sent me a video of him trying to start it so Ill check throttle position there and replicate that. Im starting to lean more towards the battery because it should be able to crank this thing more that 3 times at 10-20s each. Ill give it one more chance after I top off the cells with water and a full charge. The seller also left the key switch on the whole time he was driving tk deliver it, close to 5 hour drive.

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

Glow plugs should only require 20-30 seconds max before cranking even in weather 20-40 degrees F. Keep in mind your glow plugs are supposed to be energized while the engine is cranking. You might want to check to make sure someone didn't "rewire" that out.

 

[HomesteadOC]

Glow plugs should only require 20-30 seconds max before cranking even in weather 20-40 degrees F. Keep in mind your glow plugs are supposed to be energized while the engine is cranking. You might want to check to make sure someone didn't "rewire" that out.

Ill double check the wiring. I checked that turning ignition switch to the left doesnt energize plugs, but turning right does. I did not check while cranking, but I will do that. My new correct ignition switch is supposed to be delivered today, so Ill make sure that gets wired up according to the wiring diagram. Is there any harm in bypassing the glow plug indicator or not having that fuel return line connected from the injectors to the tank?

PS
That turbo Iseki you have is pretty rad, do you know what kind of HP youre getting at the PTO? The PTO chippers I want require 18HP minimum and this Beaver is only rated at 12.2HP.

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

The glow plugs are designed for around 10 VDC. When you are just pre-glowing the plugs they go through the indicator to drop the voltage to the required amount. When you use the switch to start the engine the "system" voltage drops to around 10 VDC due to the load the starter puts on the circuit. If you bypass the indicator without compensating for the higher voltage the battery can deliver (around 12 VDC) there is a potential to burn up your glow plugs.

The fuel return line can be left disconnected but should eventually be hooked up. It's usually a very small amount of fuel . The purpose of it is to return the small amount of fuel that doesn't get injected into the cylinder to burn. How come all of it doesn't go into the cylinder? Some of it is used to lubricate the rest of the injector according to this:

How an older diesel fuel injector works - YouTube

So it either goes on the ground or back to the tank.

I installed a turbo mainly to compensate for the high elevation I used to live at and to see what its feasibility is. I don't know what the peak hp is that it is making. I did not increase the fuel so probably not much more than stock. Fundamentally you just need to slow down if you have less horsepower available. Certainly some implements can gobble up all the power in the inherent losses they have so there is a limit to this. I would suspect your tractor will run the chipper, but not at the designed loading conditions. Whether or not you can tolerate the speed at which it can run under your loading conditions is something for you to decide. Your chipper does not require 18 continuous hp, but may require it to slice up a 3" diameter branch, 6' long, in 10 seconds as an example.

 

[HomesteadOC]

The glow plugs are designed for around 10 VDC. When you are just pre-glowing the plugs they go through the indicator to drop the voltage to the required amount. When you use the switch to start the engine the "system" voltage drops to around 10 VDC due to the load the starter puts on the circuit. If you bypass the indicator without compensating for the higher voltage the battery can deliver (around 12 VDC) there is a potential to burn up your glow plugs.

The fuel return line can be left disconnected but should eventually be hooked up. It's usually a very small amount of fuel . The purpose of it is to return the small amount of fuel that doesn't get injected into the cylinder to burn. How come all of it doesn't go into the cylinder? Some of it is used to lubricate the rest of the injector according to this:

How an older diesel fuel injector works - YouTube

So it either goes on the ground or back to the tank.

I installed a turbo mainly to compensate for the high elevation I used to live at and to see what its feasibility is. I don't know what the peak hp is that it is making. I did not increase the fuel so probably not much more than stock. Fundamentally you just need to slow down if you have less horsepower available. Certainly some implements can gobble up all the power in the inherent losses they have so there is a limit to this. I would suspect your tractor will run the chipper, but not at the designed loading conditions. Whether or not you can tolerate the speed at which it can run under your loading conditions is something for you to decide. Your chipper does not require 18 continuous hp, but may require it to slice up a 3" diameter branch, 6' long, in 10 seconds as an example.

Ignition switch came, but its raining. Im going to read up on the wiring diagram and then run out there when it slows down a little. We have 2 broke down cars in the garage and I dont have room for my broke down tractor, lol.

 

[HomesteadOC]

View attachment 543890
My diagram shows 4 connections used on the stock switch and I have 6 on the replacement and theyre all labeled differently than the diagram. On the new switch I have R1, R2, BR, ACC, C, and B the diagram has labels AC, 50, 170, 300, and what looks like 19 or 49. AC goes to the voltage regulator and the headlights (accessory), 50 isnt used, 170 goes to the S on the starter, 300 goes to the +battery, B on the generator, and the + side of the starter, and 19 or 49 goes to AV2 on the glow plug indicator and eventually the glow plugs.

On the new switch Im guessing:
C is common and should be matched to the 170 wire to the negative side of the starter?
ACC is accessory and matched to AC wire
B is (who knows, maybe bias?) and matches B on the generator.
Just not sure which one glow plugs go to.

 

[HomesteadOC]

Found this one in the repair manual and it makes much more sense. I see where youre talking about the indicator in the circuit.

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

You'll probably have to map out the new switch with a multi-meter and adapt it to the diagram the best you can. Some switches don't have provisions for glow plugs which makes for a real headache.

 

[HomesteadOC]

I used the second diagram and it makes a lot of sense to me and its easy to follow. Traced out all the wires to make sure theyre going to where the diagram says they should go and its all correct so I changed the switch. There were a lot of wires spliced together with twisting the wires together and electrical taped, then the whole loom electrical taped so no one can see how horrible of a wiring job it was. I rewired with all new thicker wires except for the ACC circuit, there was just too much going on there and I dont need it to start the engine. It will definitely be looked at after I get the starting issue resolved, and when its not raining, and Im not hunched over the engine with a tarp on my head. Also put the glow plug indicator back in the circuit the way its supposed to be and it works, so thats awesome. Unfortunately the tractor is still not starting, but it sounds more like its going to start than before. The only thing I can think of is the battery is too weak. I topped off the last cell with water when I got home and it charged for 2 hours befods I tried to start it. I also have yet to retest the compression, it got dark and it was dinner time so that will be done tomorrow.

 

[thepumpguysc]

I gotta hand it to ya Home.. your keepin at it.. Your not makin any progress but your keepin at it.. LOL..
And THANK YOU for keeping us up to date on your "doings".. MOST people come on here, ask a bazillion questions, get a bazillion answers & then disappear..
I wish you could snap/post a picture of your fuel system set-up.. w/ a pic. I might be able to tell you how to hack into the fuel system.
Keep at it.. ALL those things that your fixing now.. HAD TO BE DONE sooner than later..
Glow plugs DEFINATLY had to be replaced & the key switch "needed" to be corrected..
NOW, if we could just get confirmation on those dam compression #'s.. lol.