8n will fire but not start??

[Soundguy]

dizzy = distribuitor.

parts are parts. tisco are junky parts.. they have soft contacts that corode and powder / flake easilly. their hinge sprint and insulation grommet are loose fitting, making the breakers strike out of square, thus making hot spots and encouraging arcing and burning and pitting, and irregular points gap.

napa, carquest, and some other parts stores carry those parts.

echlin from napa are as good as any..

check spark on all plugs. if yuo have spark.. clean the plugs with carb cleaner spray.. put plugs in.. use start fluid sprayed into the carb.. be carefull.. don't stand behind the carb mouth.

in that sever cold.. the bat may have a hard time starting her and powering ignition, and getting a good pop.

if you had a helper.. I'd tell you to pullstart it.

 

[the old grind]

If it cranks with the starter but will not fire once the key is off the start position, then I would check the resistor. I do timing using a dial guage to be sure the marks are correct, also you have to be sure the firing order is not 180 degrees out. With the Piston at TDC you can install a compression tester and add compressed air, and be sure it is on the right stroke..... It is usually the simple things that you know is OK that is the problem. Things like cleaning the power and especially the ground cables and connection.
Just a thought!

If Ns are like cars, a bad resistor would let you have spark when cranking but not with the ignition in the 'run' position. I'd look to the manual for resistance checks of the coil, but even then it could be faulty. I wouldn't change many parts yet, but changing to 12v sounds like a good idea. The starter & coil, bulbs, resistor (if there) would need changed too, so I'd think of that before I went shopping. I do a lot of re-anchoring on starter & battery cables, especially critical on lower voltage systems and bikes that use tiny batts to crank big cylinders (H-D, etc) Using those star-type lock washers and greasing the connections helps with the boats & bikes, too.

If the timing is off turn the screw on the side to of the dizzy to adjust it.The .015" on the points is at max opening if it gets wider when you turn it you need to adjust the points. You adjust the points on the high side of the cam.

The dizzy (timing) might not have to be very far off on the bench to leave the points away from the high side once installed. Be sure they're fully open when gauging. Too much gap won't let the coil fully saturate, and spark would be weak when cranking/running. 'Summer' gas won't help much as the formulation is less volatile, and often won't allow staring any better than year-old stuff.

Guys, I hope you can stay away from the vitriol. SG, we do respect your knowledge and experience but offering our thoughts is part of our own learning process. I'm sure ParisPete won't remember all the lesser comments. Food for thought must be digested, and we all can learn from this interesting discussion. Without exception you guys are all great. That fella from Flushing could look for a PM soon ...

 

[94BULLITT]

If Ns are like cars, a bad resistor would let you have spark when cranking but not with the ignition in the 'run' position. I'd look to the manual for resistance checks of the coil, but even then it could be faulty. I wouldn't change many parts yet, but changing to 12v sounds like a good idea. The starter & coil, bulbs, resistor (if there) would need changed too, so I'd think of that before I went shopping. I do a lot of re-anchoring on starter & battery cables, especially critical on lower voltage systems and bikes that use tiny batts to crank big cylinders (H-D, etc) Using those star-type lock washers and greasing the connections helps with the boats & bikes, too.

The dizzy (timing) might not have to be very far off on the bench to leave the points away from the high side once installed. Be sure they're fully open when gauging. Too much gap won't let the coil fully saturate, and spark would be weak when cranking/running. 'Summer' gas won't help much as the formulation is less volatile, and often won't allow staring any better than year-old stuff.

Guys, I hope you can stay away from the vitriol. SG, we do respect your knowledge and experience but offering our thoughts is part of our own learning process. I'm sure ParisPete won't remember all the lesser comments. Food for thought must be digested, and we all can learn from this interesting discussion. Without exception you guys are all great. That fella from Flushing could look for a PM soon ...

I was going to suggest jumping the resistor. I had to do that on mine when it got cold. I am still not sure if he has the points gapped right and it timed right. If that is not in good qorking order it could cause a hard start and with the starter jumping out it would be very easy to flood.

 

[DJ54]

Ummmm..., am I the only one that caught this..??

**From the picture that GPintheMitten has posted the #1 wire goes to the from of the motor just behind the radiator, #2 wire goes behind that one, then the #3 wire goes all the way to the back of the engine on the last cylinder, and the last one #4 is located on the 3rd cylinder back for the radiator. That is where the wires have been since the second day of this thread.**

I do believe you have #3 & #4 wires crossed on the spark plugs. As mentioned in a past post, cylinders are numbered 1-2-3-4, from front to back. Firing order is 1-2-4-3. So, number on cap, to respective cylinder.

Not that you shouldn't at least get a pop from #1 & #2, if other items are properly installed and set to spec., but you're liable to freak out, if it would happen to half run, and sound like an old putsy-putsy John Deere, adding more confusion.

Hang in there, you'll get it..!!

 

[94BULLITT]

Are you 100% sure you have it timing set right?
I found a video on Youtube of a guy doing points on a 8N front mount.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RX1xDHdhXE

1.Get the points gaped right.
2. Pull the plugs and try cleaning them with gum cutter and blow them off with compressed air.
3. Turn the motor over with out the plugs in it to blow the gas out.
4.Put the Plugs in and see if it will start.
5.If you still don't have any luck and since you starter is kicking out maybe you can get someone to help pull start it. Try 3rd or 4th gear. It may take some time, I believe the tractor is flooded bad.

With the starter kicking out it is going to make it very hard to start. It will be very easy to get it flooded. You may not be able to get it started unless you pull start it.

 

[murphy1244]

I have read all the post from everyone and thought it was a spell check thing so all at once everyone tell me what a dizzy is? I was under the impression that my ex-wife was dizzy?? Just kidding.

Distributor

 

[Soundguy]

he just explained 1-2-4-3

wire 1 to cyl 1

wire 2 to cyl 2

wire 3 to cyl 4

wire 4 to cyl 3

since the dizzy turns CCW looking at it.. the rotor passes 1, then 2, then 3 ( fireing cyl 4 ) then 4 ( fireing cyl 3 ) thus 1-2-4-3 fire order.

that's why he says the wire 3 goes to the back of the engine.

remember.. many oe caps have the cyl number onthem and will thus be numbered fire order.

many caps DO NOT have the wire / cyl on them.

sequential post #3 on the dizzy goes to CYL 4.

sequential post #4 on the dizzy goes to CYL 3.

refer to the picture that has black magic marker denoting rotation on the front of the dizzy cap.

Ummmm..., am I the only one that caught this..??

**From the picture that GPintheMitten has posted the #1 wire goes to the from of the motor just behind the radiator, #2 wire goes behind that one, then the #3 wire goes all the way to the back of the engine on the last cylinder, and the last one #4 is located on the 3rd cylinder back for the radiator. That is where the wires have been since the second day of this thread.**

I do believe you have #3 & #4 wires crossed on the spark plugs. As mentioned in a past post, cylinders are numbered 1-2-3-4, from front to back. Firing order is 1-2-4-3. So, number on cap, to respective cylinder.

Not that you shouldn't at least get a pop from #1 & #2, if other items are properly installed and set to spec., but you're liable to freak out, if it would happen to half run, and sound like an old putsy-putsy John Deere, adding more confusion.

Hang in there, you'll get it..!!

 

[the old grind]

I spent all day taking my 48 8n apart to put in new points, condenser, coil, wires,plugs, and a solenoid for the starter....

Thanks

Yeah, I think the OP pro'ly has the wires right by now, but ..... same old cap & rotor??? They can look fine & be NG. A shot of mineral spirits & fish oil (WD-40) and a blast of air might clean up the cap and won't hurt anything. Apologies to the OP if he's covered this already ...

 

[DJ54]

LOL..., yeah, all in how you interpret it... Sorry...

 

[GPintheMitten]

LOL..., yeah, all in how you interpret it... Sorry...

Well, I'm still not sure, but I hope so.

Now I'm suspecting the battery is too weak. Pete, see if you can get a neighbor or your wife to help you pull start it. To do that, have the ignition switch on, put it in high gear, pull it a short distance initialy with the clutch in then let it out. It will spin the engine must faster than the starter.

Set up a signal with your helper to stop and to try again.

 

[Soundguy]

pull starts help with weak compression too.. since the dynamic compression from the faster spinning engine due to the pull-off.

 

[DJ54]

Well, I didn't catch he did not replace the cap. Even though he is getting some spark, enough to apparently knock the be-jesus out of him, there may be some build up on the lugs. not giving it optimum spark. And as mentioned above, if you already checked it, alrighty then... But the plug should throw a blueish-white spark.

And the only reason I mention that is because he said last time it ran, it was missing some what. On my "Binders", experience has taught me the first place to look is the cap and rotor button. A quick scrape, and usually I'm good to go.

 

[banjodunn]

[QUOTE=parispete;3159790]The points are set at .015 at 1/4" as the diagram fig FO83 on page 58 of the I&T Shop Manual.

Question-if the gap is set at the right setting .015 at 1/4" as the diagram in the Shop Manual and it is before dead center of the hump, which will make the points open more at dead center then which way do I need to turn the screw, clockwise or counter clockwise??
I think he has got the point setting wrong?? If I read it correctly Pete has got a 15thou gap at 1/4" where he should be just getting the points to open. The 15thou gap is set at the highest point of the cam in other words they cannot open any further than 15thou. The setting at 1/4" is the points JUST starting to open breaking the field through the coil. Correct me if I am wrong as I said earlier have not worked on any 8ns (bit thin on the ground over here) but reading the info that soundguy put up and from what the OP has written I think the timing is not right.


Jon

 

[DJ54]

I see where you're going banjodunn. I kinda' assumed he went back and set the points on the high point of the lobe, THEN was having problems with the static timing per the 1/4" setting. Maybe wondering if he took the measurement off the narrow side of the tang by mistake, but I think you nailed it.

I can see an ohm meter, and 'gator clips being real handy to get it dead nut, whether measured, or a gauge shown in one pic, IF the plate needed adjusted to the, just breaking point.

 

[Soundguy]

I see where you're going banjodunn. I kinda' assumed he went back and set the points on the high point of the lobe, THEN was having problems with the static timing per the 1/4" setting. Maybe wondering if he took the measurement off the narrow side of the tang by mistake, but I think you nailed it.

I can see an ohm meter, and 'gator clips being real handy to get it dead nut, whether measured, or a gauge shown in one pic, IF the plate needed adjusted to the, just breaking point.

yeah, that could be he is setting the gap at the rown area on the lobe..e tc.

and yeah.. an ohm meter with a tone preferably.. or a test lamp is very usefull.

There are at least 2 custom points setting jigs out there. one is completely mechanical made buy a guy on a couple tractor boards.. it's a straight jig setup. the other is a jig that also uses some led's and a few test leads, and gives you go / no go, break / open led indicators for setting the points and static timing it. I and 2 other guys I know, demo'd one of those units for a company that will be selling them soon. neat tool ( DIStool ) I believe they are calling it.

soundguy

 

[94BULLITT]

yeah, that could be he is setting the gap at the rown area on the lobe..e tc.

and yeah.. an ohm meter with a tone preferably.. or a test lamp is very usefull.

There are at least 2 custom points setting jigs out there. one is completely mechanical made buy a guy on a couple tractor boards.. it's a straight jig setup. the other is a jig that also uses some led's and a few test leads, and gives you go / no go, break / open led indicators for setting the points and static timing it. I and 2 other guys I know, demo'd one of those units for a company that will be selling them soon. neat tool ( DIStool ) I believe they are calling it.

soundguy

That is why I posted the link to that video so he could see exactly how to set the points.

 

[Soundguy]

i hope he gets back to us. these things were designed for horse farmers in the 30's.... i think the average person should be able to be 'all over' this..

 

[DJ54]

i hope he gets back to us. these things were designed for horse farmers in the 30's.... i think the average person should be able to be 'all over' this..

Hey...!! I'm a horse farmer...!!! What you sayin'....????

 

[94BULLITT]

i hope he gets back to us. these things were designed for horse farmers in the 30's.... i think the average person should be able to be 'all over' this..

Back in those days you were your own mechanic. That is why they came with a tool kit.

 

[DJ54]

I do my own wrenching, and if there were tool kits with the ones I have, someone kept them...Well, 99.9% of them. I did get the OEM wheel lug wrench with my one Super C.