93 octane or 87 Octane NO Ethanol

[vsteel]

I have been running E10 in lots of things since the 80s and have never had a problem. That includes a 75 dodge pickup, 70 Nova SS, 69 Roadrunner, 60 Apache truck, 59 Viking truck, 52 Oliver 77, 50 Owatana windrower, Massey Harris combine, and lots of string trimmers, lawn mowers, and chainsaws. Heck I even store my trimmer and saw wet with E10 and never had an issue.

I have never had an issue with E10 and I have never run stable in any of my things.

 

[SteveM70]

I ran E10 in everything (generators, mowers, chainsaws, etc.) with no problems until a little over a year ago when a log splitter carb got gummed up. After that, a generator then a push mower. All with different batches of fuel.

The pumps I get my gasoline from state "may contain up to 10% ethanol" if I remember correctly. so maybe there was less ethanol in it until recently.

No way of knowing for sure what changed but something definitely did. I run non-ethanol in all my small engines now but daily drivers still get E10.

 

[bigtiller]

I have had only one problem running E-10 gas since the '80's. My gas line won't freeze up anymore. I sure am glad I didn't buy any stock it the company's that used to make gas line antifreeze.

 

[tractorshopper]

I doubt very seriously most of us can subjectively notice significant performance gains between the fuel types in a new or well maintained modern vehicle. I know that I can't make any real subjective judgement regardless of the vehicle or the fuel. On the road or the race track. Maybe you can. But I used to swear all my vehicles ran better after a good wash and wax. The mind is a powerful thing and so is the placebo effect.

George, In my truck I sure can notice that there is no hesitation or slower ramp up when getting in the pedal. I truly can easily tell the difference in power it makes. Running ethanol, it hesitates and is less punchy and responsive all the way through and peak power is not the same. Running non-ethanol, the engine makes immediate power and ramps up through the torque curve more quickly in fluid fashion.

Been driving the same truck for over 11 years now since it was brand new. If it wasn't the case, I wouldn't have stated it. If you pay for the dyno tests, I'll be glad to run it twice with you behind the wheel with each different gas. I'm that confident in my comments.

 

[N80]

George, In my truck I sure can notice that there is no hesitation or slower ramp up when getting in the pedal. I truly can easily tell the difference in power it makes. Running ethanol, it hesitates and is less punchy and responsive all the way through and peak power is not the same. Running non-ethanol, the engine makes immediate power and ramps up through the torque curve more quickly in fluid fashion.

Been driving the same truck for over 11 years now since it was brand new. If it wasn't the case, I wouldn't have stated it. If you pay for the dyno tests, I'll be glad to run it twice with you behind the wheel with each different gas. I'm that confident in my comments.

Again, David, a dyno test is not relevant here. I have never said that it doesn't make a difference, I'm simply saying I do not think that it makes enough difference to feel it, especially unless you are pushing the limits of the engine.

There is no way I can prove that what you are feeling is in your head so it really makes no difference about what I think about your situation and your observations. In your case, as a skeptic, I'd guess it has more to do with your truck. I have a 2003 F150 5.4 and a 2015 Nissan Titan. I cannot tell any difference in various fuel or octane types even when towing, etc. Maybe its just my trucks. Maybe its just that I have no feel for this sort of thing.

And I remember as a young man making performance modifications to vehicles. You, know, the kinds of cheap mods that promise up to 5-10 extra HP!!! And just knowing I could feel the performance gains from that $25 part. It was all in my head. Most of us will _never_ notice 10 extra hp because we never get our vehicles up to the RPMs where that occurs.

So, again, I can't deny the objectivity of what you're feeling and documenting subjectively. I just don't think most people will ever to be able to see that sort of result.

I also remember a fuel test in Grassroots Motorsports. All dyno confirmed. All in a race engine tuned for the specific fuel types. There was very little difference in various levels of higher octane pump gas. Not until you got into the 110 octane or E85 was there much difference.

 

[paulfun9]

George, In my truck I sure can notice that there is no hesitation or slower ramp up when getting in the pedal. I truly can easily tell the difference in power it makes. Running ethanol, it hesitates and is less punchy and responsive all the way through and peak power is not the same. Running non-ethanol, the engine makes immediate power and ramps up through the torque curve more quickly in fluid fashion.

Been driving the same truck for over 11 years now since it was brand new. If it wasn't the case, I wouldn't have stated it. If you pay for the dyno tests, I'll be glad to run it twice with you behind the wheel with each different gas. I'm that confident in my comments.

The problem that many have with what one can feel and the other doesn't is two fold. They know many people actually do fool themselves into thinking they feel something like more power with that cheep mod and many times the person in question has victimized themselves at one time. The second is not everyone has that feel so trying to explain it will never work. I have had race car drivers that could not feel changes that would be evident to my grandmother and known mechanics/techs who couldn't feel the problem that a customer was trying to get fixed. So don't worry about how someone else responds.

 

[N80]

I have had race car drivers that could not feel changes that would be evident to my grandmother

And maybe that's me. But I don't think so because I can usually feel weight and tire differences pretty quickly on track.

Again, there are probably differences in various engines and how they handle different fuels. In mine it just isn't noticeable.

 

[paulfun9]

And maybe that's me. But I don't think so because I can usually feel weight and tire differences pretty quickly on track.

Again, there are probably differences in various engines and how they handle different fuels. In mine it just isn't noticeable.

My Brother was like that. I could pull a little air from a tire and he would feel a difference but when I added 5 HP and 18FT of torque to his engine he couldn't feel it. Myself I can feel both for the most part but must admit that with some of todays cars with the driver actually separated from the vibes of the trans and engine with isolated shifters and no real feedback threw a drive by wire pedal its getting harder.

 

[N80]

My Brother was like that. I could pull a little air from a tire and he would feel a difference but when I added 5 HP and 18FT of torque to his engine he couldn't feel it. Myself I can feel both for the most part but must admit that with some of todays cars with the driver actually separated from the vibes of the trans and engine with isolated shifters and no real feedback threw a drive by wire pedal its getting harder.

I think there is even more than that to modern cars. My track car is a basically stock 350Z. It essentially adapts to various octane levels. It has continuously variable valve timing, fly-by-wire throttle (hate it!) and dozens of other things that enhance performance but which can also isolate the driver. So I think it adapts and isolates in small degrees which would make a couple of hp or torques pretty much undetectable.

But here's the rub: regardless of whether I can feel it or not subjectively or demonstrate it or not objectively on a dyne....lap times do not change. And that makes the other subjective or objective findings pretty unimportant.

But, again, even when towing near max capacity I cannot tell a difference in fuel types with a 2003 F150 or a 2015 Nissan Titan, climbing hills, passing, whatever, no detectable difference.

Bottom line is this: I run 87 with ethanol in my trucks as the manuals suggest is perfectly fine. I run alternate tanks of 89 octane with ethanol with 93 with ethanol in my 350Z and Infiniti G37 (to save a dime here and there). For the track I run the highest octane with ethanol that is available near my house or the track. If I can't 'feel' it, if it doesn't improve towing performance and doesn't change lap times there is no good reason to pay more than 10% more per gallon for ethanol free.

 

[paulfun9]

I think there is even more than that to modern cars. My track car is a basically stock 350Z. It essentially adapts to various octane levels. It has continuously variable valve timing, fly-by-wire throttle (hate it!) and dozens of other things that enhance performance but which can also isolate the driver. So I think it adapts and isolates in small degrees which would make a couple of hp or torques pretty much undetectable.

But here's the rub: regardless of whether I can feel it or not subjectively or demonstrate it or not objectively on a dyne....lap times do not change. And that makes the other subjective or objective findings pretty unimportant.

But, again, even when towing near max capacity I cannot tell a difference in fuel types with a 2003 F150 or a 2015 Nissan Titan, climbing hills, passing, whatever, no detectable difference.

Bottom line is this: I run 87 with ethanol in my trucks as the manuals suggest is perfectly fine. I run alternate tanks of 89 octane with ethanol with 93 with ethanol in my 350Z and Infiniti G37 (to save a dime here and there). For the track I run the highest octane with ethanol that is available near my house or the track. If I can't 'feel' it, if it doesn't improve towing performance and doesn't change lap times there is no good reason to pay more than 10% more per gallon for ethanol free.

Yes there is a lot more to it today but if you really pay attention you can still feel a lot of difference.


Lap times wont always show you a difference simply because of the other factors your dealing with and not being able to find that last ounce of machine will definitely inhibit you form making use of it. When races are won and lost in thousands of s second you will quickly learn where to look and how to capitalize on .5HP or you wont be getting into the winners circle when the Professional drivers are on the track with you.