98 5.9l Cummins 12V vs. 99 7.3l Powerstroke

[MFRED]

As much as I don't like Fords, ModMech is 100% correct in his statements.
The biggest issue I have had with the Ford diesels is working on them. There's just no room in a pickup. However, put that engine in a mid sized truck, 4700, 4300, 4200 where the hood flips up, and it's a totally different animal.

The mileage expectancy claims are smoke & mirrors in my opinion. Though I have 2 Dodges with over 200K on them, it's all about how it was taken care of, and how long you want to fix the rest of the truck. All trucks will need to be worked on. Things do just wear out.
The engines in the MD trucks are running at a significantly less horsepower level. The more you try to get out of them the less life you will get. They ran the 5.9 in the AGCO tractors & a ton of others with 10' of thousands of hours on them. But they ran at 135 hp too.

Turn any one of these engines up to 500 hp and see how long it lasts. Turn it up & run it, not just around town, put 12k behind it & run the highway at 75. Do it fot 200 thousand miles and give review of how well the truck performed.

The medium duty trucks are built to run better than 500 thousand miles, the whole truck. With less HP and usually a fleet maintenance program, it's easy to get the miles out of them.
I love my Cummins, but there should be some credit give to the IH engines as well. As long as I'm not the on pulling the cab of a truck to work on it!

 

[ModMech]

Which MD trucks had the T444E? Besides School buses...?

The majority of International Medium Duty trucks that I've seen have the DT466, not the T444E.

Very common in the 4600/4700 models, especially those used as wrecker or ambulance chassis. Have lots of local lumber and single dump trucks with them and even the local septic company has 5 single tankers with them.

I don't think they were offered (for long) in tandems, they just don't have enough Tq for those 52,000# loads

They are pretty common in trucks up to 33,000# from 1994 to 2001.

 

[mlauk]

How's that??????

International sold hundreds of thousands of T444E (7.3L PSDs) in MD trucks and would not sell then to Ford for use in the MD lineup (competition for International in that market). So, if I get your claim, the B5.9L can't be a MD either because you could not get it in a GM MD truck. Ok, if that's your logic....



Sorry, 100% false, the B5.9L is NOT sold in any HD truck and they have sold a very limited number in even MD trucks. Most of the "MD" trucks where the B series is offered, the C series is opted for because it IS a true MD engine. But even that isn't available in any HD application.



Sounds like marketing material, not born out by facts gathered in the field.

I've yet to see you back up your "facts", just because they used some 7.3's in some school buses to haul some kids around doesn't make it medium duty either. I'm sure the 7.3 is a good motor, but I've seen many articles that put the 7.3 and Duramax in the light/heavy rating versus the Cummins in the medium/heavy rating and I always thought it was because of the difference of 100,000 miles on an a major overhaul 350,000 vs. 250,000 mile rating. Here is something else I found about the Cummins which might make it a medium duty motor because of the GVW rating.

"When Dodge dropped a Cummins B-Series 5.9L engine into the '89 Ram pickups, it marked the first time a genuine medium-duty diesel engine had been used in a light-duty truck. Sure, other pickups had diesels, but none of them had an engine with a gross vehicle weight (GVW) rating anywhere near the Cummins B-platform's 66,000-pound limit."

If you know why an engine is rated for light/medium or heavy duty with real facts, I would like to know.

 

[Highbeam]

I love my ford super duty. 2000 powerstroke F350 with 4x4 and straight dana axle up front. The truck and crew cab are very nice looking and comfortable.

While the engine has been fine I would rather have a cummins. There are a handful of things that could go wrong on an older deisel that are very expensive to fix. For example, replacing the injector cups on a 7.3 diesel runs about 4000$ per HEAD!!! and that seemingly simple part would total the truck.

These older trucks are about to be easily sold for less than 10,000$ but their diesel engines are still very expensive to fix. This is why I would prefer a cummins engine.

 

[3930dave]

So... I take a 2 hour drive today, to checkout the recommended F250 7.3.

Decent cab (extended), and from an abbreviated test drive (note to self - "ask private sellers if the vehicle is PLATED" !!!!) and crawl under the truck,
nice chassis.

Decided to pass on it though, body was liveable (no major dents), but what
killed it for me was the air cleaner. All the 3 clips for the front facing edge
of the air cleaner where gone, edge of the air cleaner was a little ragged in
spots, and the RHS face edge was sitting up 1/16" (air gap) or so.

The turbo had been replaced last Fall by a mechanic I know, so somebody had been messing with it after that. Could be up to 30k kilometers of air leakage into the intake... I hate to see that on any engine, but can't convince myself to consider buying a turbo motor that had been run like that.

For giggles, I stopped at a Chevy dealer on the way home (not trying to start
a brand war.... just a data point) 2010 1/2 tons are good to tow approx. 9500 lbs, at least with the 5.3l Chevy gasser. Not bad, as not many years ago (yeah, I'm getting old, but it beats the alternative :thumbsup, 1 tons were often only rated to tow something like 8,000#.

 

[Egon]

For example, replacing the injector cups on a 7.3 diesel runs about 4000$ per HEAD!!! and that seemingly simple part would total the truck.

Pretty important fact to consider.

 

[dgl24087]

Which MD trucks had the T444E? Besides School buses...?

The majority of International Medium Duty trucks that I've seen have the DT466, not the T444E.

The company I drive for has some International 4700 24' box trucks with T444e's. They also have 4300's with DT466's. The 4300's run rings around the 4700's and the Fuso's beat the DT466's in power and fuel economy. The 444's average about 8 mpg's, the 466's about the same, the Fuso's have 7.5L inline sixes and consistently avg. 11-12 mpg's in medium duty applications.

 

[Dmace]

The company I drive for has some International 4700 24' box trucks with T444e's.

And I bet not one of those 7.3l powered trucks has a GVWR over 26k. The real "Medium Duty" International 4700 series trucks with higher GVWR's had the DT466 not the "Light Duty" T444E. The Fuso is another good diesel engine, inline 6 cylinder diesel engines are tough to beat.

 

[ModMech]

For example, replacing the injector cups on a 7.3 diesel runs about 4000$ per HEAD!!!

Only if performed by a STEALership, that's about 10 times the going rate.

The company I drive for has some International 4700 24' box trucks with T444e's. They also have 4300's with DT466's. The 4300's run rings around the 4700's and the Fuso's beat the DT466's in power and fuel economy. The 444's average about 8 mpg's, the 466's about the same, the Fuso's have 7.5L inline sixes and consistently avg. 11-12 mpg's in medium duty applications.

The 4300s have much more advanced engine management systems than any older diesel regardless of the OEM.

Fuso does not offer an egine in the USA over 243 HP with 514 lb-ft of Tq, and that 460 CID in only the trucks over 18,000# GWV and they don't offer a truck with a GVW over 32,900# at all.

It takes fuel to make HP, with the DT466 at 265 HP and 620 lb-ft of Tq (most common rating but ranges from 210 HP to 300 HP) of course the DT will burn more fuel. National fleets with spotless record keeping report most trucks w/o PTOs will see 8.7 to 10.5 MPG with inner-city units on the lower end of that range and highway (rural) deliver on the upper end. Those are the FACTS.

The T444E has been out-of-production since 2002. I ran LOTS of them 15 years ago and they averaged 7.4 MPG in inner-city stop and go operation. Better than anything but the DTA 360s.

And I bet not one of those 7.3l powered trucks has a GVWR over 26k.

Then you lose. Don't make a bet unless you have some facts, because all too often it's a losing bet. The most common rating for a school bus is 27,080#, so about 70% of all busses on the road today are over your assumed 26k threashold and of the remainder a large number are Rear Engine models at 33,000# with the T444E. There are also a number of 4700 models (single rear axle) with the T444E, but not in the tandems as they were never offered in a tandem application (neither was the CAT 3116 or 3126, Cummins B5.9L or DD 8.2L :yuck: ).

Does anyone KNOW why the above mentioned engines were not offered in a tandem application? Hints, it's not because of the engine's ratings or B10 life.

 

[Dmace]

Then you lose. Don't make a bet unless you have some facts, because all too often it's a losing bet. The most common rating for a school bus is 27,080#, so about 70% of all busses on the road today are over your assumed 26k threashold and of the remainder a large number are Rear Engine models at 33,000# with the T444E.

Wow, a school bus! More then half of it's life a school bus is empty or sitting idle. If that's "Medium Duty" then my mothers minivan should be considered borderline medium duty. On any given Sunday, it transports at least 6 or 7 kids... :laughing:

As I said before... "Which MD trucks had the T444E? Besides School buses...?"