98 5.9l Cummins 12V vs. 99 7.3l Powerstroke

   / 98 5.9l Cummins 12V vs. 99 7.3l Powerstroke #31  
Are you referring to F150 with the coil springs?

I have never seen a F350 or F350 4x4 twin ibeam with leaf springs, that kept the tires square to the road. As I noted above, not the two I had. Have seen some that were not as bad, but not many.

Great trucks other than that though. I guess the rear tires stayed square to the road.

The BIG advantage of twin I-beam is fewer wear parts over IFS while keeping the tire square to the road. After all, 99% of all 4x4s see very limited actual off-road use, those that do seem to see a LOT of off-road use :) Therefore, for most customers, on-road stability and ride quality is most important.
 
   / 98 5.9l Cummins 12V vs. 99 7.3l Powerstroke #32  
They are both "medium duty" engines
You should tell Ford you think their Powerstroke is a "medium duty" engine because even they don't think so and use the Cummins engine in their "medium duty" class 6 and 7 trucks. :laughing:

The Powerstroke is NOT a medium duty engine, and does NOT like much more then about 50% more HP at most. I've seen plenty of failures.

If the truck were to double as a daily driver then I would go for the Ford, more comfortable ride and larger, newer interior but if it's mainly a tow truck and work horse then Dodge Ram all the way.
 
   / 98 5.9l Cummins 12V vs. 99 7.3l Powerstroke #33  
You should tell Ford you think their Powerstroke is a "medium duty" engine because even they don't think so and use the Cummins engine in their "medium duty" class 6 and 7 trucks. :laughing:

:laughing:

Really? Do you know WHY? Obviously not, or you would not have posted that....

Ford BUYS the 7.3L PSD (and 6.0L and 6.4L) from International, the contract between Ford and International says Ford CAN'T use the engines they purchase in the bigger trucks because International does not want their engines in competotor's MD trucks! Ford WANTS those engines in the MD lin-up, but they can't have them.

You do realize, well I guess you don't, that the T444E (7.3L PSD) is the most common of all engines in the School Bus and wrecker Medium Duty market right? I guess by definition, that makes that engine a MD product.

The Powerstroke is NOT a medium duty engine, and does NOT like much more then about 50% more HP at most. I've seen plenty of failures.

I've been working on and owning the T444E/7.3L PSDs since 1994 when they were first offered in Ford pickups and International MD Trucks. There goes your assumption that it's not a MD engine again btw. I have not yet pulled a stock engine because of any "failure" of the engine. I have been responsible for maintenance on fleets running HUNDREDS of these engines and outside of a couple exploded from Ether use, never have seen a major engine failure. Does that mean they never fail, no way, but it does take a lot and there is no weakness in them like the KDP. They also DO wear out, like any engine. The better you treat them, the longer they last.

The T444E/7.3L PSD makes 230 HP and 620 lb-ft of Tq in Medium Duty Truck and Bus applications. That is DOUBLE the HP and Tq of the standard "MD" engines of 20 -30 years ago. HP is not an indicator of LD/MD/HD, GVW of the vehciles they are used in is however. In these applications, the engine can be expected to last 200k -300k miles w/o a major component failure. Your BBC and BBF can't do that. No one is arguing that the hop-up potential of the B5.9L isn't better, in fact I stated it WAS better and a lot less expensive. That really has nothing at all to do with the OP's question or wether the engine is "MD" or not.

On the flip side, and it's a good product, I have replaced 5 B5.9L blocks. Two from the KDP, two from cracks between the core plugs on the RH side and one Cummins wouldn't repair under warranty when it smoked #1 cylinder at 23,000 miles and tore up the block.

I have replaced a number of B5.9L engines, mostly I think, from poor maintenance and not an engine issue. The HGs on the other hand, that's an engineering mistake, and I have done dozens of HGs on them, mostly in "MD" trucks.

So, if failing HGs means an engine qualifies as "MD", then the B5.9L is the only one of the two that would qualify. If, OTOH, being good for 200,000 - 300,000 miles in a MD truck w/o any fear of a catastrophic failure (like the KDP) qualifies an engine as "MD", then only the T444E/7.3L PSD qualifies.

Don't get me wrong, BOTH are good products and have their distinctive "nich" market, but it's just plain wrong to say the 7.3L isn't a "MD" engine. It's got more displacement and has sold more units in MD trucks than the B5.9L.
 
   / 98 5.9l Cummins 12V vs. 99 7.3l Powerstroke #34  
The only upgrades I'd likely do on either truck is better air filtration (if needed), and a freer flowing exhaust. The goal would be efficiency, and cooler running. Any harm (reliability wise) with these mods on the 7.3 ?

Stock filtration is more than adequate on both trucks. Free'er flowing intakes tend to give less filtration, unless you use ones that come with a layer of oil in them. The problem with the oil layered filters is you have to get just the right amount of oil on the filter after you clean them or they either won't filter well enough or the excess oil will get sucked into the intake tube and foul up sensors.

Any "Injectors for Dummies"tm summary on comparing these 2 systems ? I have to admit to being ignorant (and a little confused, esp. re the PSD system - why have a 500psi oil requirement to operate a fuel injector ?). :confused:

Exactly. While the 7.3 is the best diesel engine Ford ever put in their trucks, the injection system is overly complicated and can be a PITA when it doesn't work properly.

I use Stanadyne Power Formula year round in my old Ag tractor (just to be kind), and would also use this on either truck.

Did I understand your post correctly - the Cummins fuel system is more sensitive to ULSD than the PSD ?

Running an additive in any engine that was built to run on pre-ULSD fuel is a very important practice. The problem with ULSD is that they took all the sulfur out of it, (went from 500 ppm in the old fuel to 15ppm in the new fuel). The problems that are encountered because of this are the lack of fuel system lubrication from ULSD (in any brand of diesel engine), a higher clouding point (meaning that now it doesn't have to get very far below freezing before the fuel starts solidifying), the fuel is prone to growing algae if sat you long periods, and it produces lower fuel mileage numbers in on road vehicles.

To answer your question, no, the Cummins fuel system isn't more sensitive to ULSD, they're all more sensitive to ULSD.
 
   / 98 5.9l Cummins 12V vs. 99 7.3l Powerstroke #35  
Ford BUYS the 7.3L PSD (and 6.0L and 6.4L) from International, the contract between Ford and International says Ford CAN'T use the engines they purchase in the bigger trucks because International does not want their engines in competotor's MD trucks! Ford WANTS those engines in the MD lin-up, but they can't have them.

This is why the engine is rated as light duty versus medium duty.

The Cummins Turbo Diesel engine is renowned for its durability, being used in commercial medium-duty and heavy-duty applications worldwide. The simple inline-six cylinder design has up to 40 percent fewer parts than competitive V-8 diesel engines. And the Cummins engine has an average life to overhaul of 350,000 miles, compared to 250,000 for competitive engines. Because of its longevity, the Cummins engine is rated as a "medium-heavy duty" engine, compared to the "light-heavy duty" designation for GM Duramax and Ford Power Stroke diesels.
 
   / 98 5.9l Cummins 12V vs. 99 7.3l Powerstroke #36  
In the bigger cousins to the two motors mentioned, are any of the manufacturers using "V" configuration motors in big rigs, large trucks ect?

The older engines at our fire station have Cat 3208's(an '86 Ford F8000 buildup), and a Detroit(late 80's GMC Topkick watertender with a 92 series Detroit).

All our newer stuff has in-line motors(mostly 8.9l Cummins).

Is there an advantage to a "V" motor in a light pickup? Would guess a "V" is shorter in length.
 
   / 98 5.9l Cummins 12V vs. 99 7.3l Powerstroke
  • Thread Starter
#37  
Good discussion guys, thnx !

Lost the Ram, it sold yesterday. I stumbled across it last week, not really
knowing what I was looking at. I was trying to verify the tow rating with Chrysler, but couldn't hold the cell call on my way cross country on Friday (it's too old for the Canuck dealers to pull up specs electronically). Some guy bought it yesterday.

This is why I don't buy lottery tickets... it had been listed with the dealer since Dec.!

Snooze/Lose.... it happens...... :(

Not that I ever expect to see that combo again, but did finally confirm the tow rating today with Chrysler Canada - they tell you to use a 5th wheel above 10k#, up to 12,300# for fifth wheel. Would have done the trick for me.

I started using the Stanadyne P.Formula when I got my 3930 (used), firstly to help (long term) with the lubrication issues. It may do other things to the fuel properties well, but the next thing that caught my attention was that it demulsifies (I tend to relate to the term "coagulates" better, but realize that may be a less correct description) very tiny droplets of water into larger ones, so the filter can do a better job.

I get the impression that newer generation diesels/injectors may be more sensitive to this water issue (or maybe more so to the alternative approaches to mitigation ?, ie. alcohol), but figured anything that extracts (w/o any other side effects) more water BEFORE hitting the active fuel components, should help any era of diesel.

At least, where I live - Canada.

Debating checking out this recommended 7.3L.... I would be using it for runs 5+ hours from home, so I'm thinking I'd have to at least carry a spare HPOP and IPR with me. (That comment is me just thinking out loud, not a slag against this 7.3. Corollary to Murphy's law is that with me carrying the spares, I'll never need them.... but that is the way it goes. The other
factor.... parts here in Canuck land are 2x+$ south of the 49'th, so this would be my other main reason for have these critical parts on hand......).

I've also learned to ask the present owner to contact the manufacturer for the Build List, as I'm now hearing some song/dance here in Ontario that dealers can't give out vehicle info based on a VIN, due to new Privacy Laws. I value personal privacy myself, but I'd say they just have badly set up IT systems (Vehicle data is locked to the personal data at a guess).

Been learning lots, thnx again all. D.
 
   / 98 5.9l Cummins 12V vs. 99 7.3l Powerstroke #38  
This is why the engine is rated as light duty versus medium duty.

How's that??????

International sold hundreds of thousands of T444E (7.3L PSDs) in MD trucks and would not sell then to Ford for use in the MD lineup (competition for International in that market). So, if I get your claim, the B5.9L can't be a MD either because you could not get it in a GM MD truck. Ok, if that's your logic....

The Cummins Turbo Diesel engine is renowned for its durability, being used in commercial medium-duty and heavy-duty applications worldwide.

Sorry, 100% false, the B5.9L is NOT sold in any HD truck and they have sold a very limited number in even MD trucks. Most of the "MD" trucks where the B series is offered, the C series is opted for because it IS a true MD engine. But even that isn't available in any HD application.

The simple inline-six cylinder design has up to 40 percent fewer parts than competitive V-8 diesel engines. And the Cummins engine has an average life to overhaul of 350,000 miles, compared to 250,000 for competitive engines. Because of its longevity, the Cummins engine is rated as a "medium-heavy duty" engine, compared to the "light-heavy duty" designation for GM Duramax and Ford Power Stroke diesels.

Sounds like marketing material, not born out by facts gathered in the field.
 
   / 98 5.9l Cummins 12V vs. 99 7.3l Powerstroke #39  
The KDP fix in the older Dodges is a $55 kit plus about two hours of your time. It's pretty simple.
 
   / 98 5.9l Cummins 12V vs. 99 7.3l Powerstroke #40  
International sold hundreds of thousands of T444E (7.3L PSDs) in MD trucks
Which MD trucks had the T444E? Besides School buses...?

The majority of International Medium Duty trucks that I've seen have the DT466, not the T444E.
 

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