A nice place to visit

19th_VA · Jun 5, 2003

Way to go, Don. Though I have never been in combat (almost fit that diaper category mentioned above/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif), I try very hard to be as informed as I can about war and history. I served in the National Guard for a number of years but had to get out since I owned my own business. My old unit has been activated for two years. I believe strongly that there is no such thing as a "good" war. I do believe some have been necessary but to those who fought and died, there was nothing good about it--except coming home, and also those unbreakable bonds mentioned above by harv. When our vets come home from Iraq, even though I was opposed to them going, I'll be in the front row cheering them on. Not to get into politics, but both our President and the V.P. avoided combat in Vietnam (unlike George H.W. who served with great distinction in WWII). I believe one of the ancient Greek city states had a rule that no one could vote to go to war unless they had a son in the military. Seems like a good idea to me. Now we would have to include daughters too.

wroughtn_harv · Jun 5, 2003

Jonathon you hit on one of the reasons I think we need a military draft. We need a cross section of our population to be there. We don't just need kids that need the military to learn about discipline. Or the ones that are only interested in being a hero under fire. Nor do we just need the ones that see the military as their only way out.

Sometime visit a Medal of Honor site and check out how many of those heroes were draftees. It's a majority. Without the draft we lose that well to draw from.

Boone · Jun 5, 2003

Hi utahmule,
I decided to serve my state. Sixteen years in uniform this month.

Harv,
I don't think the draft they had towards the end of the Vietnam war was truely bringing in people from all socio-economic communities.

Anonymous Poster · Jun 5, 2003

some of the best warriors in VN and probably before, were those that were put there by court order.. For whatever reason in their lives, court, jail or service, and those guys ended up being some of the best. And, some of those, were MOH winners. I can't see why that program isn't restarted. I would rather see someone try out in the service than be a continual problem to society and or tax our system to more court, jail, appeals, etc.

Anonymous Poster · Jun 5, 2003

I don't think the services want them anymore. In WWII, at least the movie version (which probably has a grain of truth), they sent in the Dirty Dozen to assassinate leaders. In Iraq, the dropped 4 precision guided, 2000# bombs on one building without hitting the one next door. With wars increasingly fought by remote control, they need video gamers to fight them, not hoodlums.

Anonymous Poster · Jun 5, 2003

this is true, however, the video gamers as you call them, still need a lot of support personnel in order to play the game. We had a lot of hoodlum types at Caqmp Holloway. As far as I remember, all turned themselves around (maybe by being in a controlled atmosphere, I don't know) but, all turned out to be decent warriors. Although, none of them, that I can remember, had an interest in flying., They were great mechanics, armorers, etc.. And we that flew, needed a lot of support people.

Anonymous Poster · Jun 6, 2003

The Congressional Medal of Honor is not WON. The medal is awarded, and when it is formally presented to the RECIPIENT, he is known as a RECIPIENT, not a winner.

I personally have the honor of knowing 2 RECIPIENTS of the Medal, and both cringe when they are called winners. Please be kind enougn to referr to these rare MEN properly.
Thank You

19th_VA · Jun 9, 2003

Mornin' Harv,

I agree 1000%. I think the draft in the Vietnam era had too many exemptions. I believe we should have 1-2 year national service for every 18-20 year-old American--no exceptions. People who have objections to the military, or some sort of physical/mental condition that would make it difficult for them, can do other things, like volunteer in a hospital, or inner city school.

There has been a bill in Congress for various types of national service since the draft ended--it has gone nowhere. I guess this gets into politics, so I apologize.

Anonymous Poster · Jun 9, 2003

( Too many folks can't make the division between protesting the war and blaming the soldiers. )

I have yet to see anyone who is/was opposed to the Iraq war blame it on the soldiers who were ordered over there. That is blatant political rhetoric.

SnowRidge

Anonymous Poster · Jun 9, 2003

( Jonathon you hit on one of the reasons I think we need a military draft. We need a cross section of our population to be there. )

I respectfully disagree. I spent a lot of time in the military during the draft years, and maintained contact with others who stayed in after it went all volunteer.

The all volunteer forces are a much superior group. There is no longer a bright line distinguishing those who were drafted from those who weren't. Discipline is better, the treatment of the rank and file by the brass is better, and combat effectiveness is much better. Most importantly, the overall quality of life for the average enlisted person is vastly superior to what it was during the draft years. This serves the country well.

A lot of people don't realize that it wasn't just the draftees that made up the "non-volunteer" component of the services. A large percentage of the "volunteers" were those who chose to enlist in other branches to escape the consequences of being drafted into the army. These individuals tended to to see themselves as separate and distinct from the rest of the military, and many if not most got out about the time they became fully skilled in the complex jobs they were trained for. A lot of money was spent training those folks that could have better been spent elsewhere.

Unfortunately, many of those "volunteers" were discharged with not particularly good feelings about military service. This, I think, markedly impacted society's feelings toward the military and military service. The all-volunteer force concept, coupled with our current reliance on the reserve and guard components' citizen soldiers, has brought the country's respect for the military and those who serve in it back where it belongs.

SnowRidge