A warning for those considering a Gear Drive Kubota L2501

   / A warning for those considering a Gear Drive Kubota L2501 #21  
A good salesman will know, but the learning curve is still there. Our local dealer has been run by the same family since the mid 50s, but not long ago their salesman changed careers and the fill in salesman really wasn't up to speed. When a new sales manager was hired, he readily admitted the need to become better acquainted with the various models.
 
   / A warning for those considering a Gear Drive Kubota L2501 #22  
That makes sense. The thought never came to me concerning an inexperienced salesperson.
 
   / A warning for those considering a Gear Drive Kubota L2501
  • Thread Starter
#23  
How in the world would a Kubota dealer not know the differences in how the geared and HST PTO's operate?
The salesman who sold me this tractor sells a lot of lines of big farm equipment -- not just Kubota compact tractors -- so not terribly surprised that he didn't know all the details. He had told me that he thought the L2501DT has a 2 stage clutch, which was still in its crate from the factory when I bought (I did the demo drive on a L3301). When the tractor was delivered and I _lutc.jpgsaw that sticker on the instrument panel, I thought "uh oh".

John Deere provides electric-independent PTO on pretty much everything nowadays, so coming from that side, Kubota makes the customer/salesman work harder because they have a unique PTO/transmission situation by tractor:

L2501 gear (nonlive, 1 stage clutch),
L3301 gear (adds synchro shuttle but still has nonlive PTO),
L3901 gear (adds live PTO), and
L4701 gear (adds a electric independent with a knob that you twist).

What other mainstream manufacturer has so much variety in one compact tractor line? Choice is good, but the setup is unique to each one, so it really raises the burden on the salesman and customer to make sure they know exactly what they're getting.
 
   / A warning for those considering a Gear Drive Kubota L2501 #24  
The salesman who sold me this tractor sells a lot of lines of big farm equipment -- not just Kubota compact tractors -- so not terribly surprised that he didn't know all the details. He had told me that he thought the L2501DT has a 2 stage clutch, which was still in its crate from the factory when I bought (I did the demo drive on a L3301). When the tractor was delivered and I View attachment 484059saw that sticker on the instrument panel, I thought "uh oh".

John Deere provides electric-independent PTO on pretty much everything nowadays, so coming from that side, Kubota makes the customer/salesman work harder because they have a unique PTO/transmission situation by tractor:

L2501 gear (nonlive, 1 stage clutch),
L3301 gear (adds synchro shuttle but still has nonlive PTO),
L3901 gear (adds live PTO), and
L4701 gear (adds a electric independent with a knob that you twist).

What other mainstream manufacturer has so much variety in one compact tractor line? Choice is good, but the setup is unique to each one, so it really raises the burden on the salesman and customer to make sure they know exactly what they're getting.

My "guess" is that Kubota is trying its best to maintain a price point for an entry level tractor as competition is stiff. Live and especially independent is going to cost more.
 
   / A warning for those considering a Gear Drive Kubota L2501
  • Thread Starter
#25  
My "guess" is that Kubota is trying its best to maintain a price point for an entry level tractor as competition is stiff. Live and especially independent is going to cost more.

Agreed. Kubota is very price competitive for the quality and size of tractor that you're getting, but you do need to pay attention to some of the details to make sure you know exactly what you might be missing. For example, if you want a clutchless engage for the PTO, the L2501HST does not have that -- you do have to use a clutch (unlike nearly every other manufacturer at this size point). But that is extremely minor. I am so far very happy and impressed with my L2501HST.
 
   / A warning for those considering a Gear Drive Kubota L2501 #26  
Agreed. Kubota is very price competitive for the quality and size of tractor that you're getting, but you do need to pay attention to some of the details to make sure you know exactly what you might be missing. For example, if you want a clutchless engage for the PTO, the L2501HST does not have that -- you do have to use a clutch (unlike nearly every other manufacturer at this size point). But that is extremely minor. I am so far very happy and impressed with my L2501HST.

I couldn't agree more and I spend a LOT of time researching. Of course there is the old saying, "I wish I understood everything I know." Knowledge comes with time and experience in addition to research and it's hard for a new user to fully understand what he/she is going to need.

I've driven tractors for over 60 years and the things I said I'd never need just a few years ago and now find essential is pretty long.:laughing::eek:
 
   / A warning for those considering a Gear Drive Kubota L2501 #27  
I couldn't agree more and I spend a LOT of time researching. Of course there is the old saying, "I wish I understood everything I know." Knowledge comes with time and experience in addition to research and it's hard for a new user to fully understand what he/she is going to need.

I've driven tractors for over 60 years and the things I said I'd never need just a few years ago and now find essential is pretty long.:laughing::eek:

You didn't know you needed a grapple until you needed one!:laughing:
 
   / A warning for those considering a Gear Drive Kubota L2501 #28  
I want to tell my experience with a Kubota L2501 in case it's useful to anyone considering this tractor, or a L3301. They are wonderful tractors but the buyer should be aware of the following if you're not planning to get a hydrostatic.... First some background: I cut 10 acres of rough land 1-2 times per year. I did this successfully with a John Deere 1023E tractor and 4 foot Frontier RC2048 cutter. The 1023E's ground clearance around the transmission was fairly low, however, and the ride was a bit rough. So I wanted to upgrade this summer. I wanted a Deere 3032E with 5 foot cutter but it ended up being more than I wanted to pay, especially since I am unlikely to ever put that many hours on the tractor. The new Deere 3025E seemed better for my budget, but is not out as of this writing, and in any case my John Deere dealer said it has only 17.4 PTO horsepower and thought that is too little for a 5 foot cutter. So I talked to Kubota dealers, and they were quite supportive of putting a 5 foot cutter behind a L2501, which has better PTO horsepower than the Deere (and up to 70.2 lb-ft of torque, incidentally, compared to 51.3 for the 3025E and 64.2 for the 3032E; although torque is not probably as important as PTO HP). I ended up with a Gear Drive Kubota L2501 with 5 foot Land Pride RCR1260 cutter. The gear drive saved maybe $1000 and offered more PTO horsepower (20.5 PTO HP vs 19.0 for the L2501HST). HOWEVER, the gear drive was a big MISTAKE for my situation: Problem 1: Nonlive PTO. When mowing if you ever need to change a gear or reverse, you must fully depress the clutch pedal, which also shuts off the transmission-driven PTO (and rear cutter). If you are in heavy material and want to slow down or back up, your only choice is to raise the mower and keep going (but not getting the grass cut) or to put the clutch in, bringing the tractor and PTO to a complete stop. (Note that the gear drive L3301 also has nonlive transmission-driven PTO. The L3901 gear drive might have the advantage of a two stage clutch pedal, which can let the PTO keep going as you change gears. However, buyers should check this carefully). Problem 2: There are only 8 forward gears on the L2501 and they are spaced somewhat widely for mowing. It's hard to find the specs, which are only in the Kubota owner's manual and not online. Here are the details: Low2 is 1.1 mph (much too slow for mowing except for very heavy conditions) Low3 is 1.6 mph (very slow for mowing -- much slower than I generally did in my 1023e with a much smaller engine -- but this is the most realistic option for most conditions) Low4 is 2.8 mph (substantially faster than L3, and generally too fast for mowing for all but the lightest material -- but still may not get a good cut because you're going so fast) Also: on the L2501 (unlike L3301 as I understand it) there is no shuttle shift, which means that if you want to go from forward to reverse, you have to fully depress the clutch, come to a complete stop, which shuts down the PTO as well, and slowly shift and let your clutch out again. To save the clutch, the PTO and the implement, you really should do all this at fairly low RPM. However, since this action is also how you get the tractor to start moving again, you need some power -- maybe 2000 RPM to get the whole thing to go. Your left leg will really get some strength training! Anyway, a gear drive L2501, with its transmission-driven PTO and somewhat widely spaced gears, is a little bit like a 1950s type tractor, and is not for everyone! I am sure there is someone out there who loves it, and will promptly tell me I'm just inexperienced. If someone has had a good experience with this tractor, please share. After nearly 5 hours of frustration, my dealer let me trade up to a L2501HST, which essentially solves the problem. I would not hesitate to recommend the L2501HST to anyone wanting to run 5 foot implements.
I have a L3800DT, and what you describe is very true, I have trees I'd like to mow under by backing into because of the sun cover, it's all but impossible, have to clutch in PTO mower and then just barely engage tractor gearing and be ready to clutch in to stop and change direction. There's no halfway down to change direction. The clutch must be fully depressed and tractor stopped to change direction, which stops power to PTO. Sometimes I wish I had hst, to have gotten the live PTO. That said the DT was $2k less, has more power at PTO, is more fuel efficient when mowing and we'll be trouble free much longer than a hst tractor and much cheaper and simpler to repair, it's very old school and may never need repair compared to a hst. I can live without live PTO, engagement of PTO is much smoother than live machines which means my implements will last longer too. HS.
 
   / A warning for those considering a Gear Drive Kubota L2501 #29  
Maybe it's me, but I believe there is also a safety factor on a clutch pto. I want to stop mowing immediately, I push in the clutch. My MX, not so, because it has a live pto and I have to pull the handle while still in gear. It sure takes some getting use to.
 
   / A warning for those considering a Gear Drive Kubota L2501
  • Thread Starter
#30  
I have a L3800DT, and what you describe is very true.......

My limited understanding is that most tractors before 1953 or so had a transmission-driven PTO, which made it difficult for farmers to deal with a hay baler, for example. It was quite a big deal when Live PTO was introduced. The 1953 Allis Chalmers WD45 was one of the earliest, I think.

As a teenager I used to help a small-scale dairy farmer bale hay in the summers -- I stood on a wagon behind the baler, stacking the bales that came out every so often. They ran a 1950s Ford 8N (nonlive PTO) and I remember the farmer having a hard time dealing with that clutch. The huge flywheel on a haybaler has similar momentum to that of the blades on a rotary cutter.
 

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