AC question

[Cougsfan]

Those "block valves" are shown on page 194 and 195 as keys 5&6. they are called "Q/C 7/8" and Q/C 5/8" and do have a Branson part number. They could indeed be just bulkhead fittings and they have a bad translator. It is funny that the parts diagram doesn't show the expansion valve or the dryer receiver, yet I can buy them if I call the dealer. And my tractor definitely isn't exactly the same as all the things they show.

Hire a pro to take it from here then go to trade school or apprentice if you want to learn how to repair air conditioning.

Jax, I guess you and I come from totally different worlds. That's fine, it would be boring if we were all the same and some diversity is good.

I would learn exactly nothing if I hired a pro. Not only that, pro's aren't cheap, nor are there an abundance of "pros" just setting around willing to come out to my place and mess with this. My dealer, to his credit, has admitted that neither he or his mechanic are ac "pros" by any means. They would likely replace parts until they stumbled on to the solution, which is a more common way of doing things than most dealers would like to admit. And besides, what fun would hiring a pro be? I would get little done if I took time to go to a trade school to learn the intricate details of the diverse things that I like to do. I don't think doing this myself is going to cause anything to blow up and kill anyone. By the way, I am a retired Mechanical Engineer with a professional engineering licence and worked around various types of industrial refrigeration systems all my life. I probably have a better grasp of the Carnot cycle and thermodynamics in general than most "pro's". I don't have any experience with small automotive type DX systems though. I have never worked on one. My friend also has pretty good set of credentials along with years of back yard experience in working on various farmer's combine ac units. I think he knows enough not to be too dangerous. So we will soldier on despite our obvious ignorance and amateur status.

 

[TractorGuy]

Cougsfan I took the Q/C to mean quick coupler. Most likely like the couplers that are on some vehicles requiring a plastic tool to release a spring band to pull them apart.

Fuel Line and A/C Quick Disconnect Tool, 6 Pc.

If you get a chance post a photo and that could be confirmed or dispelled.

 

[LouNY]

Those "block valves" are shown on page 194 and 195 as keys 5&6. they are called "Q/C 7/8" and Q/C 5/8" and do have a Branson part number. They could indeed be just bulkhead fittings and they have a bad translator. It is funny that the parts diagram doesn't show the expansion valve or the dryer receiver, yet I can buy them if I call the dealer. And my tractor definitely isn't exactly the same as all the things they show.


Jax, I guess you and I come from totally different worlds. That's fine, it would be boring if we were all the same and some diversity is good.

I would learn exactly nothing if I hired a pro. Not only that, pro's aren't cheap, nor are there an abundance of "pros" just setting around willing to come out to my place and mess with this. My dealer, to his credit, has admitted that neither he or his mechanic are ac "pros" by any means. They would likely replace parts until they stumbled on to the solution, which is a more common way of doing things than most dealers would like to admit. And besides, what fun would hiring a pro be? I would get little done if I took time to go to a trade school to learn the intricate details of the diverse things that I like to do. I don't think doing this myself is going to cause anything to blow up and kill anyone. By the way, I am a retired Mechanical Engineer with a professional engineering licence and worked around various types of industrial refrigeration systems all my life. I probably have a better grasp of the Carnot cycle and thermodynamics in general than most "pro's". I don't have any experience with small automotive type DX systems though. I have never worked on one. My friend also has pretty good set of credentials along with years of back yard experience in working on various farmer's combine ac units. I think he knows enough not to be too dangerous. So we will soldier on despite our obvious ignorance and amateur status.

That is the attitude that helped make this country so great, the can do will do.
If you really want to get the "leave it to the professional" going talk about the many benefits of R290 and how easy it is as a drop in change out for R12 systems and will also work quite well in R134 systems also. It will be interesting to hear how how it works in these new R1234yf systems.
Also most HVAC training or education ignores the ammonia based systems which to my recollection is still the most energy efficient system available, especially with the technologies available today(collecting solar?) to generate the heat needed to cool.
Good luck getting your AC back in good working condition.

 

[Cougsfan]

Thanks Lou.
All of my experience is on the design end of large multi stage ammonia and CO2 systems in both flooded and liquid overfeed layouts. As a note, a particular refrigerant's efficiency is primarily based on the evaporating and condensing temperatures that you have available. Most will work in a somewhat significant range but each have their sweet spots in temperatures for efficiency. If you need to get something really cold, you may end up with a 2 stage package where an ammonia refrigeration system is used to cool the condenser of a separate CO2 refrigeration system.

I will be the first to admit that understanding theory behind a refrigeration system and understanding the nuts and bolts of how things work in practice are two very different and only partially related arts. I am quite short in knowledge on the nuts and bolts end of things, but am enjoying learning how that end works. I am looking forward to taking the system down to nothing and will report back when I am done.

I did post a photo of these block valves in an earlier reply, TractorGuy, but it came out as an attachment. I will try again.

 

[radios1]

That is the attitude that helped make this country so great, the can do will do.
If you really want to get the "leave it to the professional" going talk about the many benefits of R290 and how easy it is as a drop in change out for R12 systems and will also work quite well in R134 systems also. It will be interesting to hear how how it works in these new R1234yf systems.
Also most HVAC training or education ignores the ammonia based systems which to my recollection is still the most energy efficient system available, especially with the technologies available today(collecting solar?) to generate the heat needed to cool.
Good luck getting your AC back in good working condition.

the problem with R290 is it's propane, and highly explosive. the problem with Ammonia is it's highly poisonous when inhaled.. other than that, they are both very good refrigerants, but both can leak, and cause death, which some people like to avoid!.

 

[aczlan]

the problem with R290 is it's propane, and highly explosive. the problem with Ammonia is it's highly poisonous when inhaled.. other than that, they are both very good refrigerants, but both can leak, and cause death, which some people like to avoid!.

The good thing about Ammonia is that it will let you know it's there long before it does any damage, most people start smelling it between 5PPM and 50PPM, it doesn't start getting to where it will do permanent damage until above 300PPM (300PPM is where OSHA, et,al require supplied air and a a hazmat suit)
By contrast, Freon based refrigerants are odorless and can asphyxiate you without warning under the right circumstances.

Aaron Z

 

[radios1]

The good thing about Ammonia is that it will let you know it's there long before it does any damage, most people start smelling it between 5PPM and 50PPM, it doesn't start getting to where it will do permanent damage until above 300PPM (300PPM is where OSHA, et,al require supplied air and a a hazmat suit)
By contrast, Freon based refrigerants are odorless and can asphyxiate you without warning under the right circumstances.

Aaron Z

I don't think ammonia or propane is allowed as a refrigerant in homes or autos. you take a sleeping pill, or get drunk enough, in a house, you might not wake up in enough time to escape. also, in a car accident you may be trapped in there for too long.. except for ammonia refrigerators in mobile homes, those have VERY thick piping, and usually don't get compromised in an accident..

 

[Cougsfan]

No doubt finding leaks with ammonia is a piece of cake compared to other refrigerants. You'd have to do something incredibly stupid to get poisoned by it. Ammonia can be a significant skin irritant, and under ideal conditions it can be explosive too. Under normal circumstances you'd be hard pressed to make it burn. But there was an instance several years ago where a processing plant blew up and several people killed due to an ammonia leak teamed with stupidity which had lasting repercussions throughout industry . But all things considered, it is a very desirable refrigerant in many applications for a lot of good reasons. Imagine having an ammonia leak in a automobile though! Call the lawyers!
Nearly all refrigerants have some sort of drawback. Water is probably the only really safe one I know of. But the condensing and evaporating temperatures and pressures of water make it impractical for cooling systems (exception: swamp coolers). Water actually does work, using the very similar thermodynamic principles as a refrigeration system, but at a much higher temperature range. i.e. boilers & heat exchanger heating systems.

 

[bernardcuziillo]

Here's a good clue from Wikipedia:

A type of externally equalized thermal expansion valve, known as the block type valve, which features an internal sensing bulb (often the valve's metal body, particularly when a stable and hunting-free refrigerant flow control is required), located inside the suction line connection and in constant contact with the refrigerant that flows out of the evaporator's outlet, is nowadays often used on automotive evaporators.

 

[LouNY]

the problem with R290 is it's propane, and highly explosive. the problem with Ammonia is it's highly poisonous when inhaled.. other than that, they are both very good refrigerants, but both can leak, and cause death, which some people like to avoid!.

Propane in highly flammable, the LEL is 2.1%, the HEL is 9.5%.
So if it's richer then 9.5% it's not flammable or leaner the 2.1% it's also not flammable.
With the little bit that would be used in an AC system and the dissipation rate from a moving vehicle.
Also it is allowed even in this country in small systems and small chiller units, it is quite popular in many places.
I know of a few systems around that are using it.