Adding auxiliary hydraulics to a 310C backhoe for a Okada hammer, please help

[Jaco1979]

I've been searching and searching, I can't seem to find the answers to a lot of questions...

I'm a fairly hardcore DIY guy, but have little hydraulic experience. I've been rebuilding the cylinders on my old 310C backhoe and now bought an Okada 60B hammer for her.

So I can't seem to find how people are plumbing these things. I did get a quote for $2800 to build a "kit" but was really hoping to do this myself and save some money...

I talked with a really friendly technician that said "Don't stack valves into the backhoe controls", I try to take advice when people seem to know what they're talking about.

The loader valve is easy to get to, should I tap in there? What kind of valve do I need? How do I limit flow to hammer, or do I need to? This is an open hydraulic system afaik so do I have to divert flow from loader or backhoe to the hammer?

Hammer specs: Working weight (lbs):
1,190
Tool diameter (in):
3.3"
Nominal Ratings
Energy impact class (ft-lbs):
1,250
Impact frequency range (blows/min):
730 - 970
Oil flow range (gpm):
17.0 - 23.0
Operating pressure range (psi):
1,735 - 2,320
Overall length with tool (in):
83.0"
Carrier:
12,000 - 20,000

Deere 310C seems to be a good fit for the Hammer...

Thanks in advance, and sorry if the information is out there and I've missed it... I'd like to do a nice writeup on how to do this to help future DIYers...

-Jake

 

[oldnslo]

Does this hammer have the hammer valve built in. If yes all you should need is a pressure supply and a line directly to tank. Not sure where you can access the pressure line though.

 

[Tx Jim]

. If yes all you should need is a pressure supply and a line directly to tank.

If 310C hyd system is open-center then what you state will not operate correctly. Hammer valve needs to be attached in series not teed into hyd system.

 

[farm boy00]

Could you do a 20gpm pump that is drivin off of the motor by belt?? That way it would be it's own system

 

[oldnslo]

If 310C hyd system is open-center then what you state will not operate correctly. Hammer valve needs to be attached in series not teed into hyd system.

You are correct the pressure line must be in series but I believe that some models of hammers will not allow excessive back pressure in the tank port. If this model hammer is like that it would have to be the last valve in the circuit to allow flow from the hammer to return direct to tank.

 

[Jaco1979]

Thanks for the replies, I believe this machine is open circuit as I know it doesn't have an accumulator.

I'm certain there is enough power from the machine's hydraulic pump...

I just ordered a full manual for the machine, I think I need the full hydraulic schematic to find out where to plumb this into.

Does anyone have a good source for a valve that would work well assuming this is a open circuit? I'd like to use a 12v setup with a footpedal if possible.

Also (without mucking things up too much) does anyone have a good grasp on "power beyond" and why that is or isn't useful in my situation?

 

[Jaco1979]

You are correct the pressure line must be in series but I believe that some models of hammers will not allow excessive back pressure in the tank port. If this model hammer is like that it would have to be the last valve in the circuit to allow flow from the hammer to return direct to tank.

I'll e-mail Okada and try to find out what type of internal valves it has. Looks like I'm going to have to rebuild the hammer anyway...

 

[MORRISONSTEEL]

Thanks for the replies, I believe this machine is open circuit as I know it doesn't have an accumulator.

I'm certain there is enough power from the machine's hydraulic pump...

I just ordered a full manual for the machine, I think I need the full hydraulic schematic to find out where to plumb this into.

Does anyone have a good source for a valve that would work well assuming this is a open circuit? I'd like to use a 12v setup with a footpedal if possible.

Also (without mucking things up too much) does anyone have a good grasp on "power beyond" and why that is or isn't useful in my situation?

Power beyond is just Deere's terminology for access to un metered oil supply. The pc does show a fitting related to power beyond, wether it helps in your case or not.... Don't know much about hammers. View attachment 310C.pdf

 

[oldnslo]

Also (without mucking things up too much) does anyone have a good grasp on "power beyond" and why that is or isn't useful in my situation?

In most cases power beyond provides the option of adding more valves down stream of an existing valve bank. Example would be flow goes from the pump to the front loader valve. The power beyond port of the front loader valve connects to the back hoe valve. If the back hoe valve has power beyond options you could possibly connect you hammer valve to this port.

In an open center - series circuit the first valve of the circuit can use all of the flow and make the rest of the functions inoperable.

I do NOT know if this matches Deeres description for power beyond though.

 

[rScotty]

In most cases power beyond provides the option of adding more valves down stream of an existing valve bank. Example would be flow goes from the pump to the front loader valve. The power beyond port of the front loader valve connects to the back hoe valve. If the back hoe valve has power beyond options you could possibly connect you hammer valve to this port.

In an open center - series circuit the first valve of the circuit can use all of the flow and make the rest of the functions inoperable.

I do NOT know if this matches Deeres description for power beyond though.

I believe it does match well. The term "Power Beyond" is a general term for a full flow-thru port in a directional control valve regardless of who makes or uses the valve. My understanding is just as you described.
In theory, you could string a dozen directional control valves together by connecting the power beyond port of each to the intake of the next. Then any directional control valve (DCV) in the series string would be able to actuate the device connected to that valve's directional ports and no other device would be affected. You could take the original input from just about anywhere as long as you do NOT create an alternate fluid path by doing so. If you do, no damage will happen. It just won't work well.
Of course just as you say, being able to string DCVs together depends on no single directional control valve using all the available flow. In addition, each valve unavoidably adds resistance to the entire circuit, and that fluid resistance uses available flow as well as heating the fluid. Heat is the enemy here.

A common problem with lots of valves in series involves the size and restriction of the return line from each device. It is entirely possible to overload some section of the return line and build enough pressure which can even cause some devices to try to work backwards. That's pretty feeble & obvious, though.

As far a open versus closed hydraulic systems, the 310C is an open system. It does not have an accumulator. In an open system like the JD310C, the unused flow continuously returns to the sump tank and gets gets cooled and filtered along the way.

However, some hydraulic hammers are a sort of exception to the open/closed circuit rule. That's because the way some hammers work is that they pressurize a cylinder to move the hammer pin compressing a very stiff spring until a pre-determined trigger point. At the trigger point, the fluid is suddenly dumped - allowing the spring to send the hammer pin flying against the work. In addition to that, some hammers are two-cylinder types so that each cylinder's motion also recocks the trigger on the other cylinder. And then all repeats again.

What this means is that because these cylinders are constantly working to compress against a spring, they are in effect turning the hammer portion of the simple open center hddraulic circuit into something that closely resembles the closed center type of operation. But it doesn't make a difference to you. Just treat it as a simple open circuit system. If the hammer is working correctly it will take care of the rest without any help.

Let me know if this helps,
rScotty