Adding down pressure to loader - Valve questions

[MarkP2321]

Tractor: Massey 65 Diesel
Loader: Freeman (seperate pump driven off the pto on the front)

I'm in the process of adding down pressure to my loader. I've installed the new cylinders (old SA ones were leaking anyway). I took the plug out of the other side of the lift spool valve and hooked up the line thinking that would give me the down pressure with no success. I'm pretty sure that I need a new spool valve to make this thing work properly.

My questions are:
1. Do I need a valve with or without float? (I've searched and searched and this still confuses me).
2. Open or closed centre valves?

Any help would be appreciated, hoping to do this next weekend so I need to get this ordered sooner rather than later.

Thanks,
Mark

 

[J_J]

Most FEL valves have down pressure, and float.

If you pull the lever away from the valve, the lift arms should rise, and If you push fwd on the lever, the lift arms should descend, and if you push even more fwd, the lever will lock into float..

You should be able to lift the wheels off the ground by using the FEL levers and not go into float.

You should have an open center hyd system.

Hydraulics:
Capacity: 8 gal [30.3 L]
Pressure: 2500 psi [172.4 bar]
Pump flow: 4.76 gpm [18.0 lpm]

 

[MarkP2321]

Thanks for the insight. So I assume that something like https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-6702-F&catname=hydraulic will do the trick?

 

[J_J]

That is a 25 GPM valve.

You should select a valve that matches your pump flow.

Why do you think you need a new valve.

You mentioned another plug, how is that port used ?

If yo have float, your lever will have 4 positions, raise, neutral, lower, and a detented float.

 

[aczlan]

Thanks for the insight. So I assume that something like https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-6702-F&catname=hydraulic will do the trick?

That should work (as a similar one did on Dad's Industrial 35 that he used to have), but if you only have ~5GPM I would go with a smaller valve. One that big wont let you "feather" much as it will pretty much be open or closed.
If you are going to replace it (and I wouldnt do that until you have tested your existing valve more), I would recommend something like: https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-7401&catname=hydraulic as (having used both) a joystick is easier to use multiple functions at the same time.
If you want to keep the 2 separate levers, try this one: https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-7695&catname=hydraulic as it is significantly cheaper.

Aaron Z

 

[MarkP2321]

I took the plug out of the port that was blocked off and connected the 'down' hydraulic line to it, no down pressure whatsoever. I had my brother watch the high-pressure line coming out of the pump as i was letting the loader down and it didnt "dance' at all as it does when i lift or tilt the bucket. There is no detent float on it either.

I'm new to all of this and the further complication is that the tractor is up north and difficult to take it somewhere to get the work done.

 

[aczlan]

I took the plug out of the port that was blocked off and connected the 'down' hydraulic line to it, no down pressure whatsoever. I had my brother watch the high-pressure line coming out of the pump as i was letting the loader down and it didnt "dance' at all as it does when i lift or tilt the bucket. There is no detent float on it either.
I'm new to all of this and the further complication is that the tractor is up north and difficult to take it somewhere to get the work done.

What happens when you put that line into a bucket? Does fluid come out?
Can you post a picture of the valve and its ports/model number?

Thanks

Aaron Z

 

[J_J]

Can you or someone show pictures of the valve on the tractor.

Cyl hoses should only go to the work ports. and if the valve does not have float, there is an additional valve that can be added to achieve float.

If your valve is good otherwise, you might consider that option.

If you want joystick valve then there are several valves for your tractor, with float and regen.

Your are talking about DA cyl, on the loader, correct.

 

[MarkP2321]

Nobody is up there to take pictures but this is the cylinder on the machine: Valves (4 pages)

Its in the second grouping (the one with the plugged port).

 

[Zebrafive]

Tractor: Massey 65 Diesel
Loader: Freeman (seperate pump driven off the pto on the front)

I'm in the process of adding down pressure to my loader. I've installed the new cylinders (old SA ones were leaking anyway). I took the plug out of the other side of the lift spool valve and hooked up the line thinking that would give me the down pressure with no success. I'm pretty sure that I need a new spool valve to make this thing work properly.

My questions are:
1. Do I need a valve with or without float? (I've searched and searched and this still confuses me).
2. Open or closed centre valves?

Any help would be appreciated, hoping to do this next weekend so I need to get this ordered sooner rather than later.

Thanks,
Mark

If you want float, your valve must have float built in. Float will allow the loader to follow the ground when down, good for back grading.

You say you exchanged single acting cylinders for double acting, but they will not produce down pressure. It appears you are not getting flow from the plug you removed. Not sure why. Maybe swap lines with your dump cylinders on the bucket (at the valve) and see if this valve gives you down pressure. That would confirm your cylnders are working and plumbed properly.

 

[Leejohn]

You might not get flow out of that plugged port because the valve body was more then likely used for SA and DA cyl. They would just use a different fitted spool and with it being that old i wouldn't think you could find a DA spool for that valve body.

 

[J_J]

If you want float, your valve must have float built in. Float will allow the loader to follow the ground when down, good for back grading.

You say you exchanged single acting cylinders for double acting, but they will not produce down pressure. It appears you are not getting flow from the plug you removed. Not sure why. Maybe swap lines with your dump cylinders on the bucket (at the valve) and see if this valve gives you down pressure. That would confirm your cylnders are working and plumbed properly.

Zebrafive, If he adds this valve to the lift cyl, he will have float.

You need both work ports connected correctly to operate a DA cyl, and you will have down force.

Surplus Center - 20 GPM 1/2" NPT FLOAT VALVE PRINCE SS-2B1D

Surplus Center - HM50 1/2" FLOAT VALVE

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Drawing/DR9-1064.pdf

MarkP2321 ,

Did you change out lift cyl from SA to DA cyl, or did you just take the breather out and try to connect a hose to the cyl port?

 

[MarkP2321]

J_J,

I put two new ones on ICW-3030 - 3" Bore, 30" Stroke Welded Hydraulic Cylinder by International Hydraulics

 

[J_J]

Those are DA cyl.

Are you using both work ports on the same spool?

How many times have you extended and retracted the cyl.

Hold the FEL lever until the relief valve sounds off or the engine lugs down.

 

[MarkP2321]

Double acting.

Yes.

 

[J_J]

A 3 in cyl on a loader is really big, and could rip, and tear things up bad.

You are pushing with almost 9 tons of force on one cyl, and if you have two cyl, double that.

 

[MarkP2321]

Yeah they are on the big side of what I was after but they are what they are. We had to modify the mounts to accomodate the new cylinders and we reinforced the loader at the same time. The tractor won't be used for heavy use (just for doing odd stuff around the property at the cottage) so I'm not overly concerned about tearing things up.

 

[MarkP2321]

I cycled the cylinders up and down at least a half a dozen times, ran them all the way up and dropped them all the way down (as if to try and pick up the front of the tractor) to no avail, the engine does not bog down at all when trying to drop the loader.

 

[J_J]

If you remove the hoses off the cyl, and place in a bucket, and move the FEL lever, do you have fluid flowing?

Do you know if your pump is working.

Is your 3pt working?

 

[MarkP2321]

3pt works well.

Pump for the loader is seperate from that of the tractor. I assume the pump works or else it wouldnt lift the loader at all (also, I moved a few tri-axle loads of gravel with the loader before changing the cylinders).