Adding DPF to 350KW Generac

[Red Horse]

Guess this is as good a thread to post this as its a HD diesel issue.
My town has a 350 KW genset powered by a Deere 13 or 14 liter engine. It is on our joint fire/police station and is probably8-10 years old (building was new then)

Mind you the facility is that old and all of a sudden we are going to spend $57,000 to ad a "Diesel Particulate Filter". Seems like all of a sudden the "air quality" in the building is poor when the unit goes into its test cycle every Tuesday at around 10AM as the exhaust on the genset is only about 8' off the ground about 5' from the building and the exhaust fumes make it to the HVAC air intakes on roofs.

As a taxpayer I went down there to look t it and got a quick tour. I asked.."why not put a stack on it"? Answer.."$100,000". I then said..."Move it 70' to edge of parking lot"...that too.."$100,000.

So I send email to town Administrator with cc's to Selectmen and basically say a DPF will only service to have a negative effect on motor performance and the employees will in any case still be saying..."what's that smell?" To say nothing of adding to maintenance cost associated with the DPF not functioning.

I have asked to see the cost estimates that support the 100G alternative figures and of course get nothing. My guess is a double wall stainless thin wall pipe as you would use for a large wood/coal stove could be added for 5-10g. Or a schedule 40 8' pipe for about the same-to a 35' height. As for relocating the unit, you would saw cut asphalt (18" width, excavate trench to say 3ft. throw new feed from unit to existing distribution panel on building as well as a couple of control wires. As for physical move, it's a typical skid. One large hydraulic crane parked at 35' line and its a 15 minute pick of 180 degrees. And as it's a skid, no need for anything but a floating slab to set it on. I've also suggested changing the test cycle to say 6 or 7 PM on a Sat night. Worst case 2 cops on duty. (After building this new structure with a very nice "dispatch" room, we join a regional dispatch operation and a big savings) Even during week, max occupancy is 3 in PD and 2 on Fire side. No cost for that. Granted that does nothing for "extended use" air quality issues (about 8 or so years ago we were without power for almost a week because of one **** of an early ice storm when trees were still loaded with leaves)

I talked to an Deere engine sales guy (Marine/gensets) and he concurred- Unless the spent about 30 g to modify engine to handle a regeneration cycle-can't believe a Deere "crate motor" would cost that much- you will have to manually clean the DPF trap on a regular basis.

Any opinions. I liken this to having a "hot" 327 Chevy or Ford 289 Hi-Po from the 60's and saying.."want to make this baby run? You need state of the art emission controls"

 

[mrmikey]

Both options of $100,000 seem excessive to me but not being there I'm just talking out my *****.
As for adding the DPF crap.....people are spending money to get rid of it or buying old machinery that doesn't have it and they want to add it.....someone needs a head shake. Like you had said, they'e going to be changing one smell for another if the exhaust is entering the building.
As for changing the cycle time, you're still pumping fumes into the building be it 2 or 20 people you're affecting, not a good scenario for anyone.
I agree with you, add a stack, you may have to go with a forced exhaust due to the length but I can't see the cost being as bad as was said.
My 2 cents worth (Can$, 1.5 US$ )..........Mike

 

[Diggin It]

Follow the money. Who would be supplying the add-on kit and liquid? What kind of contract will they be getting? What, if any connections do they have with the decision makers?

 

[Red Horse]

thx guys-appreciate any and all comments.

 

[radios1]

the prices quoted are absolutely inflated!.. and a diesel is going to smell if the exhaust gets into your AC intake DPF or not..

 

[Rebeldad1]

guessing its just too close to the building. You could get a quote from a contractor on moving it then present it to them?

 

[mrmikey]

Just thought, easier to move the air intake?.....Mike

 

[DEWFPO]

All good thoughts, relocate the building air intake, raise/relocate the genset exhaust stack, move the generator.

You might want to consider asking reputable contractors to look at the task, make suggestions and then ask anyone interested in the project to meet with the city council to offer up a more 'common sense' solution that are likely to be more cost effective and actually solve the issue at hand.

I think this needs to be approached from the angle that the proposed solution will not solve the problem.

This sounds like someone was asked to look into the situation who is not knowledgeable about these things and they asked the wrong outfit to come up with a solution. Unfortunately this one won't work and the funds will be wasted and maintenance costs will go up.

I wish you luck with this. I know how frustrating this can be.

DEWFPO

 

[Diggin It]

This sounds like someone was asked to look into the situation who is not knowledgeable about these things and they asked the wrong outfit to come up with a solution.

No, this sounds like a back room deal that has to have the appearance of being justified somehow.

And as I read this, the OP is a citizen taxpayer with no roll in the decision making process. So, unless they can get a number of other townspeople to start asking questions and showing up at public sessions, I don't see much possibility of change.

 

[ultrarunner]

I'm looking at retirement of the Hospital Onan Cummins generatir that has 660 hours and performs flawlessly since 1995 and that's the problem... 1995 emission controls.

 

[orezok]

A natural gas conversion would be less costly and very clean and efficient.

 

[aczlan]

A natural gas conversion would be less costly and very clean and efficient.

Diesel can be trucked in after an earthquake. Kind of hard to do that with natural gas.

Aaron Z

 

[orezok]

True, but not many earthquakes in MA.

 

[aczlan]

True, but not many earthquakes in MA.

True, I was referring more to Ultrarunner's hospital genset in CA where they are fairly earthquake prone.

Aaron Z

 

[ultrarunner]

True, I was referring more to Ultrarunner's hospital genset in CA where they are fairly earthquake prone.

Aaron Z

25 years ago we had natural gas generator but when code changes after Loma Preita onsite fuel storage mandated... either propane or diesel meets code.

 

[buickanddeere]

I'm looking at retirement of the Hospital Onan Cummins generatir that has 660 hours and performs flawlessly since 1995 and that's the problem... 1995 emission controls.

Why do they think that emission controls will make any difference to the world when one engine is operated
a few hours a month .
Some standby applications only have to meet Tier II or Tier III rage and not Tier IV .
Sounds like some righteous @$$hole has found a 田ause and it running around proudly thumping their chest .

 

[grsthegreat]

Any electrician could move that system for a few grand worth of wire, some trench time and moving the unit. Talk about over inflated government bids. Just adding dpf wont do a thing.

I install high voltage systems all the time before retiring. This probably involves either 2 or 3 parallel runs of wire and some control wire. Not sure if asphalt drive is involved or not....that could definitely increase costs.

 

[ultrarunner]

Why do they think that emission controls will make any difference to the world when one engine is operated
a few hours a month .
Some standby applications only have to meet Tier II or Tier III rage and not Tier IV .
Sounds like some righteous @$$hole has found a ç”°ause and it running around proudly thumping their chest .

Yep... doesn't make a lot of sense.... 26.2 hours per year total over 25 years and a big chunk of that time is when the utility shuts down the grid for days at a time... tissue bank, cryo-freezer, etc need to be powered around the clock.

When the local grocery has seafood sales the refrigerated trucks run all weekend...

But it's not just generators... it's wood chippers, ag pumps, etc...

 

[Red Horse]

For sure. Town's "responsible official" and an outside "expert" said $100,000. I say 10 grand and someone would be making a lot of money at that figure.

 

[orezok]

Any electrician could move that system for a few grand worth of wire, some trench time and moving the unit. Talk about over inflated government bids. Just adding dpf wont do a thing.

I install high voltage systems all the time before retiring. This probably involves either 2 or 3 parallel runs of wire and some control wire. Not sure if asphalt drive is involved or not....that could definitely increase costs.

The problem could be CARB. At the school district where I was a Facilities Manager our district office was on 26 acres. When I built it in 1995 we installed two 750 kva generators for back up power. Years later I built an Emergency Command Center building which had its own generator. A few more years later we wanted to upgrade our Main server room with its own backup generator as it was previously run off of one of the 750s, we were not allowed as CARB limited the site to 3 generators unless they were a certain distance apart. I forget the exact distance but it was in the 300 foot + range. Site was not big enough to accommodate. Made no sense but that was the regulation.