Advice for a complete novice: gas v. diesel

[mureiko]

Ok, would anybody be willing to give some advice to a complete novice? I've got 50 acres in Texas. About 20 acres need to be mowed, and of course there's other stuff that needs to be done. My budget is limited, so I'm looking at older American tractors--MF, Ford, etc. First question: gas vs. diesel. I'm not a mechanic but can at least change oil and do a few other things. Some people have said go with gas because there is less maintenance. Others say go with diesel because they last longer, and diesel is just better.

Anybody want to give me some direction? Thanks so much.

Bill

 

[Soundguy]

I would say deisel is -less- up front maintenance.... no plugs/plug wires. distribuitor cap, rotor, points, etc.

Thats a lot of property. no doubt gas did the work in the past.. that's not an issue. Any larger farmall would be up to the task..

Large ag tractors seem to get real cheap compaired to compacts.. for instance.. I can find ford 8000 deisels from the late 60's in my area for 5 grand.. 105 pto hp.. pretty impressive..

on the other hand.. for about 7gs or so.. you can get a new 30hp chineese tractor.. etc... not a completely bad option either...

If you get gas.. get a big one... don't try to maintain 50 ac with an 8n.. I love em.. but they aren't for that kind of work...

Large jd's, case's, big ac's.. like a wd45.. case DC series, ford 5000 or 6000 .. any big oldie that could bale hay is a good tough machine...

As for pro / con.... maintaining a gas tractor is similar to your car / lawnmower... diesel is well.. less hands on till something breaks.. then it cost, whereas the gas jobs hit you up here and there, not counting the big breaks.. etc.

Buy something with good rubber.. big rubber, for these big tractors is very $pendy...

Good luck.

soundguy

 

[Egon]

If you are buying an older farm tractor knowledge and the ability to determine the condition of the tractor are important factors. Many old farm tractors have been used to their service life and are then sold before costly maintenance issuses and the accompanying downtime become a problem to the farmer.
The more sophisticated the tractor the greater chance for problems. Also consider the availability of parts, very important.

That said; good tractors can be found by being patient and choosing carefully. I'd stay with the gas as diesel repairs such as pumps can be costly.

Egon

 

[PineRidge]

If you look at the freeways you will see diesel trucks delivering the majority of goods delivered today.

There are good reasons for that: Diesels engines will stay together and outlast a gasoline engine by leaps and bounds and there is no comparison as far as fuel consumption, diesels win the match hands down.

If you have a choice, go diesel, you won't be sorry that you did.

 

[grandad]

So far you have some good advice here. I won't dispute anything others have said about older tractors. Finding one that is not totally worn out is probably the most important. Certainly that means more than what brand.

How old you go will somewhat dictate whether it's gas vs. diesel, since all the manufacturers seemed to go away from gas sometime in the 60's or thereabouts.

One other thought... 20 acres is a lot to mow if you do it more than once or twice a year. You will need either lots of time or a big ($$$) mower. Don't know what your other chores will be, but dont' forget to consider the size and cost of the implements you will need along with the tractor.

 

[bgott]

It depends on how much you're going to spend. You can get an old gas tractor with a mower for $2500 and come out OK. If you bought an old 8N most parts are still available reasonably and any semi competent auto mechanic with a manual could fix it. I would be nervous about looking at a $2500 diesel. Anything that cheap would stand a better than average chance of being a POS and parts availability would probably be spotty at best. You also wouldn't want your auto mechanic working on your diesel, not a lot of gas only mechanics seem to be able to cross over and diagnose diesel problems and vice versa. How much are you planning to spend?

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Many old farm tractors have been used to their service life and are then sold before costly maintenance issuses and the accompanying downtime become a problem to the farmer.
)</font>

Good points.. though in the 50 year old tractor range.. I'm sure in many cases the farmer has -already- incured the downtime and expenses.. and wants to cut his loss... and sells /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

As always.. condition dictates price.

BTW.. who is it? Cub Cadet that is still producing a gas compact?

 

[normde2001]

"My budget is limited, so I'm looking at older American tractors--MF, Ford, etc"

You didn't say how limited your budget is; however if it is very limited, and your main chore is going to be mowing that 20 acres, I would go with a Ford 8n, (50-55 yrs old, gas, approx. $2500), and one of those foreign made sicklebar mowers, (7', about $1150), unless you can find something used.

 

[art]

The best thing to help anyone help you and not waste your time is to know what a limited budget means? Can you afford payments? Diesels are good, but old diesels can be expensive just as well as gas but they don't have to be.

 

[Trev]

I'm not very mechanically inclined, but if you are an old tractor might work well for you. My friend is 53, and he bought an old tractor which was born the same year he was.

He rebuilt it once, and has used it for the last 25 years without any problems.

But he knows what he's doing. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[BobG_in_VA]

Your prayer is hereby answered. See attached. I emailed this guy and for about 2200 you can cut your 20 acres till the cows come home. This tractor is about a 1956 200 Farmall and has right at 25 HP, weighs about 3500 lbs and can pull a 7 ft finish mower (assuming you put the 3pt hitch on it). Yes this is sort of "tongue in cheek" but why spend $10K on a small compact when you can spend less and get an AG tractor that has shown it stands the test of time. Parts for everything are still available pretty much anywhere. Have a good day all. BobG in VA

http://www.tractorshed.com/cgi-bin/photoads/classifieds.cgi

 

[BobG_in_VA]

Ooops! The inidivdual page didn't take. Go to the "search" mode above the seach rectangle. type in Farmall 200. You should find it or a hundred others just a good. BobG in VA

 

[Slamfire]

Id I was buying an old gas tractor to mow 20 acres, I look for a 600 series Ford, and a 6' towable rotary cutter. The 600 series are as much better than the 8n as the 8n is better than the Fordson, and don't cost much more than the 8ns.

 

[Soundguy]

The only bad thing about those sickle bar mowers is the upkeep.. they get pretty expensive to replace cutters.

especially for just pasture cutting.. unless he is haying..

On the other hand I agree.. we need to know what the budget is... as for near the same price he can get a new chineese deisel and 4 or 5' mower for under 4k$.. etc.

still depends if he is wrenchy.. etc.

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

Yep.. a ford 650 would be ideal ( env an 8xx series ).. more power than the 8n.. live hyds.. live pto sometimes.. and better tranny.... still close price range... he should be able to get a 640 and 5' rotary mower for 3500=3700 if he shops around. there is a 640 near me for sale for 3200 right now...
He might luck up and get a package deal... otherwise cout 500-600 for a medium to light duty cutter like KK or howse..

Soundguy

 

[EddieWalker]

All good advice, but it gets confusing looking at older model tractors. You don't know the history and if you get lucky and find a really well maintained one, you are still going to be working on it.

Tractors have evolved into better tractors over time. A company builds a tractor, it has a problem, they build a better tractor. New tractors a better than old tractors.

If you don't know allot about working on tractors, you will if you buy a used one. Guranteed! You learn more every time it breaks down.

With that much land to maintain, fixing and maintaing an old tractor all the time might not be the way to go.

I was looking at used, but never found a brand and model without some issues. I ended up buying brand new because I figured it to be much cheaper in the long run.

Look at the financing options available and you will be suprised what is available.

As far as comparing diesel to gas. Diesel will provide more power to the wheels and PTO, it will run stronger at lower rpm's, maintenence is less and fuel economy is greater. In Texas you can get diesel tax free. You can buy farm diesel at some stations tax free, or you buy it at a station for normal price, save the receipts and fill out some forms to get the tax refunded.

The difference in pricing parts depends on how old the gas one is you buy. Old tractors with gas engines don't have parts at the local parts store and most dealers don't carry them. What does a used 50 year old gas starter go for? Can you find one for the model you buy? Guys with older tractors LIKE to work on them and find those hard to find parts. Do you?

Good Luck,
Eddie

 

[slowrev]

Before buying an older tractor browse the web and dealers to check for availability of parts for the brand/model you are going to buy. Some models have many parts available and some are a bit difficult to get. One thing I have found is that the USA built older tractor parts are almost always cheaper than the parts for a new foreign built tractor.

 

[PineRidge]

<font color="blue"> Before buying an older tractor browse the web and dealers to check for availability of parts for the brand/model you are going to buy. Some models have many parts available and some are a bit difficult to get. One thing I have found is that the USA built older tractor parts are almost always cheaper than the parts for a new foreign built tractor.
</font>

I'll buy that statement 100%. My last tractor was an import and it was a little harder to find parts when I needed them quick. That's one of the major reasons I went with New Holland this time. It could have just as easily been John Deere, Massey, or the others but I chose to stay away from the imports this time around.....

 

[rdam]

I'm pretty sure the majority of your TC40 is imported. At least the important parts.

 

[MossRoad]

<font color="blue">As far as comparing diesel to gas. Diesel will provide more power to the wheels and PTO </font>

I would think that if a machine is rated at 50PTO HP it will do 50HP work, no matter what engine is driving it. Or will the diesel have more torque behind the HP?