Traction Advice/wisdom needed for slope operation problems with my PT 1430....

   / Advice/wisdom needed for slope operation problems with my PT 1430....
  • Thread Starter
#11  
Thanks for all the discussion ... nice to have all that internet accessible experience out there! So to answer some of the additional questions raised and background information requested ....

1) I purchased my PT1430 used along with the trailer and a few implements in November 2011. (It started its life in North Carolina with a landscaping company I believe). It arrived with the turf tires. In December 2011, it made a return trip back down to Tazwell VA for a full factory going over and to address some clear maintenance problems. It got a main pump rebuild while there among some smaller repairs and a good check-up from Terry and the crew. Same sort of hill traction issues were present with the turf tires - so decided to try new tires....

2) The current lug tires were a new purchase and installed spring of 2012. Local tire service place had them at close to the rated 20psi pressure. Although traction improved in general vs. the turf tires, the slope issue remained. Tried adjusting the pressure down a good bit - using the advice of sitting on flat concrete surface to achieve maximum contact across the lug tread on the flat hard surface. If my memory holds I think that seemed to be around 8psi. But did not "fix" the slope break-free spinning when hot condition.

3) In 2013 (spring/summer) had another factory return visit and 2 main hoses were replaced - vibration had apparently worn enough to cause a leak where they passed under the operator area foot plates and out to the front end area. Again took the opportunity to have the factory give everything a good look-over while there.

4) As pointed out, I have only been using the standard temp gauge as my guide, and have not installed a meter or spot checked the actual hydraulic oil temp. I will use a laser spot temp meter and keep notes on actual direct oil temp measurements the next opportunity I have to run it long enough to where the slope traction problem kicks-in again.

5) On the operational issues.... yes, I have tried going at all different methods of going light, medium, and full on the pedal and tried climbing both forward and reverse up the steep slope sections, and tired different loading weight options - ie: no bucket, empty bucket, medium fill, and heavy filled. What I have consistently found is when still relatively "cool" I can get up the steep slope sections pretty consistently (as long as the road is not too wet/muddy) in most any configuration. However, even in good road conditions - the worst performance is backwards with loaded bucket; and whenever I get stopped on a steep section - getting started moving uphill can be "iffy" without a tire spinning (progressively worse with warm-up condition). Best approach for me on these steep slope sections is to always come into them with as much speed and momentum as possible and even if a tire breaks loose, can still generally make the climb (until it gets up to the magic temp where it just spins wheels always). As long as I am 1/2 to 2/3 throttle or better (depending on load) - there is never issue with any bogging-down on any light or hard pedal mashing. As a traction and torque note -- we have one short section of asphalt paved driveway that is almost at that same grade - never any traction or power issues on the paved driveway of course - any approach from just creeping with light pedal to full mash down with as much load as I can safely manage is fine on the pavement section.

Hopefully will get good upcoming weekend weather for some outside tractor time and I will report back with more details and specific measurements. Thanks again.
 
   / Advice/wisdom needed for slope operation problems with my PT 1430.... #12  
Well, that's just a weird problem, especially since you don't experience power problems on the paved surface at the same slope. Very weird. I got nothing for you on that. :confused3:

It seems to be purely a traction issue at this point. Especially since you've mentioned it does it with a full bucket. If anything, a full bucket going uphill would put the maximum load on the front tires. Logic says the rears would spin out, not the fronts. At this point, I'd trace every hose from each wheel motor back to the pump and draw yourself a schematic and post it here. Maybe someone with another 1430 will see something that's different than theirs.

I've operated articulated hydrostatic machines since about 1979. Aircraft moving equipment primarily for the first 6 years. I owned an International IH2500b tractor loader, which is a 50PTO HP hydrostatic industrial tractor from about 1990 to about 2007. And I've owned the Power Trac PT425 for 16 years. What all of them had in common was that I am supposed to run them at full throttle all the time. The aircraft moving equipment stated it in the operating manual and so did the International operating manual. The Kohler gas engine in the PT425 is designed to run at 3600 RPMs as well. WHY? Seems wasteful.

Well, its for several reasons. One being you get much better power and response from the machines at full throttle than you do at lower throttle speeds. It not only goes better at full throttle, it stops better at full throttle. And its less stressful on the pumps at full throttle. It generates less heat under load at full throttle. And it dissipates more heat under load at full throttle. With the Kohler gas engine, its designed to operate at 3600 PRM and that provides maximum air flow through the cooling fan as well.

The only reason I mention this is because you mentioned 1/2 and 2/3 throttle settings. I'm gonna assume you've tried it at full throttle many times.

Very perplexing, especially in that it occurs after its warmed up. Very perplexing. :confused:
 
   / Advice/wisdom needed for slope operation problems with my PT 1430.... #13  
the temp reading is going to say a lot.

And just to confirm, if the bucket is empty you go up and down no issue, right?

I run 6PSI... 2lbs does make a difference. Also, you might want to try chains...

One other thing you could do. Get the beast hot, then jack it up.. start it and run the treddle forward and back. All wheels should rotate in unison and at the same speed.

Oh, those drive hoses you replaced fail avery few years for me . I finally but a hose protector over the front tunnel lip to stop the hoses from rubbing.
 
   / Advice/wisdom needed for slope operation problems with my PT 1430.... #14  
No. He said bucket full or empty. He even said no bucket at all.
 
   / Advice/wisdom needed for slope operation problems with my PT 1430.... #15  
.....
5) On the operational issues.... yes, I have tried going at all different methods of going light, medium, and full on the pedal and tried climbing both forward and reverse up the steep slope sections, and tired different loading weight options - ie: no bucket, empty bucket, medium fill, and heavy filled. .....

Here's where he mentioned it.

I'm stumped.
 
   / Advice/wisdom needed for slope operation problems with my PT 1430.... #16  
My roof has a 45° slope so every day I get to look at what the PT1850 is rated for and shake my head in amazement.

Ken
 
   / Advice/wisdom needed for slope operation problems with my PT 1430.... #17  
I don't know if this is revelant but my 422 would have less torque when hot. It came with 5w30 transmission oil. I changed it to 15w50 Mobil 1 synthetic oil. It made a significant difference. I do keep my 422 in a heated garage.
 
   / Advice/wisdom needed for slope operation problems with my PT 1430.... #18  
Ok. If I were teching this.

First lower tire pressure

Second. Confirm cooling fan is runnung

Third. Figure out true hydraulic temp

Fourth. Jack tractor up while hot to confirm tire rotation

Fifth. Check hydraulic lines confirm wheel drainage works

It gets expensive after this

Use hydraulic pressure gauge to check system

Replace oil with synthetic oil

Wheel motors tested

Tram pump tested.


The one thing is that PT expiremented with weird wheelmotor plumbing so if you do give a quick sketch it would help
 
Last edited by a moderator:
   / Advice/wisdom needed for slope operation problems with my PT 1430.... #19  
Two thoughts:
1) I do think that it is a traction issue, and that the hot vs cold has more to do with how many times you have gone over the same piece of soil. My technique has been to just feather the accelerator to keep the engine speed up and the spinout to a minimum. (It's never zero on steep dry soil for me. The mix of dry clay and gravel/rock seems to be too friable.)

2) FWIW: I did change my oil from 10W40 dino oil to 15W50 pure synthetic and I saw no change in behavior for my steep hill spinouts/loss of torque.

All the best,

Peter
 
   / Advice/wisdom needed for slope operation problems with my PT 1430.... #20  
I agree that it is likely the repeated passes over the same area. I have some 30° areas that are loose shale and clay and each time i go over the same area, my wheels will spin more than the last. Then rain/dew helps things adhere again until the next time I do multiple passes. So I try to use different trails as much as possible for each trip. This is also true with my wet clay areas where multiple passes will rip off the top layer of grass after a few runs over it and leave a mess.

If you have an option to do an angled path that is less steep, that would likely help. I also am always looking for tree die offs that lend themselves to new trails where the trees used to be. I hate cutting down live trees but I really should get into the practice of thinning my woods as well.

Ken

Two thoughts:
1) I do think that it is a traction issue, and that the hot vs cold has more to do with how many times you have gone over the same piece of soil. My technique has been to just feather the accelerator to keep the engine speed up and the spinout to a minimum. (It's never zero on steep dry soil for me. The mix of dry clay and gravel/rock seems to be too friable.)

2) FWIW: I did change my oil from 10W40 dino oil to 15W50 pure synthetic and I saw no change in behavior for my steep hill spinouts/loss of torque.

All the best,

Peter
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

Agway AccumuL8 Grabber (A50515)
Agway AccumuL8...
16 STEEL SHEETS CURVED (A50854)
16 STEEL SHEETS...
2020 KUBOTA RTV X1100C UTV (A51406)
2020 KUBOTA RTV...
2014 TOYOTA 8FGCU25 FORKLIFT (A51222)
2014 TOYOTA...
2019 CHEVY 5500 CAB CHASSIS (A50505)
2019 CHEVY 5500...
2008 FORD F-650 (A50854)
2008 FORD F-650...
 
Top