Traction Advice/wisdom needed for slope operation problems with my PT 1430....

   / Advice/wisdom needed for slope operation problems with my PT 1430.... #21  
Another question....

You say the front tires are spinning out when going up the hill forward.

And you said the tires spin going up the hill in reverse, as well.

To clarify, when backing up the hill in reverse, is it the tires on the front of the tractor (the loader end) that spin?
 
   / Advice/wisdom needed for slope operation problems with my PT 1430.... #22  
So what did I typo? Really sorry for whatever it was. Was using my iPhone as I am now and well. I have big fingers. Sorry for whatever I did.
 
   / Advice/wisdom needed for slope operation problems with my PT 1430.... #23  
I think you typoed "put" and meant "PT".
 
   / Advice/wisdom needed for slope operation problems with my PT 1430.... #24  
You say that you lose traction and wheels start spinning.

How many wheels? Opposing pair (left front and right rear)? All four? Two on a side? Both rear wheels, but not the front?
 
   / Advice/wisdom needed for slope operation problems with my PT 1430.... #25  
In the first post he said one or both front wheels spin.
 
   / Advice/wisdom needed for slope operation problems with my PT 1430.... #26  
I have a Dig It backhoe that operates like a zero turn mower but with the wheel motors in the front. The left motor has more power and will turn faster...to the point where I'm always having to correct the steering to go straight. Also, the right motor will "stall" much easier than the left motor. The motors are the same size.

I frequently have a similar experience to your description. When the oil is hot, the left motor will still perform well. But the right motor will stall, limiting my ability to climb a hill. The left motor will spin, being the stronger motor, but the right motor no longer provides enough torque to "help" move the hoe forward. Sounds exactly like what you are experiencing. The motor that's not spinning is probably stalling. When the oil is cold, it still provides enough torque to help get you up the hill. But when the oil is hot, it's stalling and the front motor alone doesn't have enough traction to get you up the hill.

How to be sure? As Woodlandfarms mentioned, after you've eliminated other causes, you'll need to have the motors tested. Not an easy job because it's hard to get the hubs off. I used a 12 ton hydraulic gear puller and barely succeeded. Some were easy...some not.

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   / Advice/wisdom needed for slope operation problems with my PT 1430....
  • Thread Starter
#27  
Thanks again for all the ideas and helpful suggestions ... I started out today thinking I was going to generate a lot of "fresh" hard data to post by testing temps and re-checking my memory of forward vs. backward tire spins on the slope climb ... but as is typical, never seem to get as many things on the list completed as I expect too ... So here is the new info I have to report from today ....

1) started out at about 56°F here this morning after being a low of 40°F overnight where the PT1430 was sitting out at the ambient temp. Started it right up and took a normal forward run up the steep section of the compacted dirt slope at full throttle and full forward pedal with an empty bucket attached ... ran right up the slope section - no tire spin at all. This is my normal approach to the slopes (full throttle/full pedal) and it has worked best--but I am sure if I was not at full throttle it would still have been OK when cold ... same with less pedal, but having more speed when climbing has always been more successful than slower approach on the slope.

2) Next - I wanted to get a "cold" measurement on another observation I think I have always noticed, but never really measured: When "cold" the PT seems to just go slower in general travel speed than after it gets "hot"/"warmed-up" ... we have a fairly level but short section of state paved road that I frequently travel between two access roads on our property, so with no speedometer, I just got the stopwatch to check my travel time when still basically "cold" between my two points. Got 4 time measurements - 2 down and 2 back. Cold times were 47 to 49 seconds at full throttle&full forward pedal mash. Plan was/(is) to compare to see if it does get "faster" after warm-up and by how much.

3) With the first "cold" tests done, after maybe 10-12 minutes of run time...stopped to check the hydraulic oil temp directly at the tank (engine temp gauge still on the low side of 100). Laser thermometer reading about 75°F, HVAC-style metal probe digital thermometer reading about 78°F.

4) Next to double-check tire pressures - found the front left a little low at 6psi all others reading 8-9psi. Sitting on level asphalt tire lugs looked like they were getting pretty flat contact across the width. Will top-up the front left psi to match the others.

5) Cooling fan testing was next-up....and here was the first big surprise for the day. The fan motor had died. I could not make it spin-up when direct 12V applied bypassing the thermo switch. Not sure how long ago it had actually died - as over the winter we got so little snow, never had to run it very long to just push the little snow around. I am sure it was spinning some before winter - but not having done any real testing, I suppose it is possible it could have been a slow death and not producing the full CFM it should have been??

[SO RECOMMENDATIONS ON REPLACEMENT FAN? UPGRADED MODEL? MORE CFM? From what I can tell, the one that was there looks to be a SPAL (Italy) 12" "puller" -- perhaps model #30101504 which would be 1230CFM per online specs) Will call Terry/Tazwell tomorrow and see what they say on fan replacement/upgrade options and advice. The real SPAL fans are not cheap -- anyone using a quality alternate one they are happy with??

So with the bad fan -- I got discouraged, and since I was a bit overdue on the filter change hours, ended up spending the rest of the day fussing with hydraulic, fuel, and engine filter changes. Always forget what a giant mess changing the hydraulic filter makes...anyway will save those pics and griping for another thread someday.

Final additional notes....

a) I am still running the "factory recommended" 10W40 motor oil as the hydraulic oil. The oil does not look too bad, but it must be 5 years old now. Maybe time to consider a change to a different type? [I spent a good couple hours reviewing all the threads on here going over the motor oil as hydraulic oil debates and the alternatives people are trying out.]

b) I did look up the service info on the hose replacements -- replaced both hoses to the right front wheel motor in 2013 when they rubbed enough to start leaking.

c) On the questions asked about clarifying what tires spin on the slopes ... going up-slope forward - one or both front tires can start to spin (and the rear tires are not spinning/turning) - NOT the opposing front/rear pairs spinning. When attempting to go backwards up the slope when hot ... my memory is that the "uphill" thus rear tires will be the ones that start to spin.... but I will want to re-check this again to make sure I am correct on that. I could not do as well in any backwards climb attempt when hot as I could when going forwards--so has been a while since I last tried that approach.
 
   / Advice/wisdom needed for slope operation problems with my PT 1430.... #28  
Regarding hydraulic filter change mess....

I usually clean the area as well as I can with paper towels and put a few paper towels under the filter area. Then I get a large zip lock back (any heavier plastic bag will do). Crack the filter loose with a wrench. Slip the bag over the filter from below. Remove the filter and catch any drips in the bag for a minute or two. The remove the filter and bag to my oil drain pan. Anything that drips from the filter mount will drip onto the paper towels. Works great. Hardly any cleanup. :thumbsup:
 
   / Advice/wisdom needed for slope operation problems with my PT 1430.... #29  
On the 10-40. Unless you get oil or dirt in large amounts in your Hydraulic you do not need to change. Soon you will have a nice hose break and you will replace some of that oil as it the rest is fertilizing the ground.

I think Martt probably has the solution, you have a wheel motor bypassing. But first, time to get the cooling fan fixed.

As for the fan, the number I have on file is Spahl 30100385 for my machine. I did not find a replacement but any fan that blows in that particular direction with those dimensions will work. Spahl is pretty reliable, remember these fans are not sitting the way they were designed and are on top of a hot engine, not in front...
 
   / Advice/wisdom needed for slope operation problems with my PT 1430.... #30  
FWIW: in my experience, the Spahls are really reliable, and some are very efficient, fans. Given that you've had one die, I might be inclined to devote a little time to waterproofing the motor edges and wire guide a bit more than the factory.

If you do elect to change brands, make sure that you get at least the same CFM at the same or lower current in puller mode. Fans are notorious for having widely variable efficiencies, mechanically and electrically. FYI: The spiral blade fans tend to be a little more efficient.

I have planned to add a second fan blowing cool air in toward the hydraulic cooler, but I haven't put it in yet, as I want to add a relay on the fan switch. (Long do list these days, with more pressing items.)

All the best,

Peter
 

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