Advise on winch for tractor

Cory2 · Oct 27, 2004

I have a John Deere 4020 diesel (94 hp) that I use primarily for bush-hogging the family farm. Since the farm is mostly rented out, it's the only tractor that I have. The problem of course is what to do when I get stuck. (Just had to get the neighbor to come pull me out, which I hated bothering him for.)

I was considering getting a winch where I could pull myself out next time I get stuck. I really don't need it for other things. I've read some of the posts on winches but would appreciate some advice on the following:

1) How powerful a winch do I need for this if I'm not pulling logs, ect. Will an electric winch suffice or do I need a hydraulic or PTO winch?

2) It would seem that which direction I winch would depend somewhat on what's available to anchor to, which of course, is unpredictable. Since the winch is going to be on one end or the other only, this could be a problem. How have others dealt with this?

Thanks,
Cory

beenthere · Oct 27, 2004

Welcome to the forum.
I'd call the neighbor. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

bczoom · Oct 28, 2004

Cory

Welcome to TBN.
Can you elaborate on "getting stuck"?
How often do you get stuck?
Is the tractor getting buried or are you just stuck in something slick?

A 3PH or hyd. winch probably won't meet your requirements. It can't be moved to the front and can't be on the 3PH if you already have the brushhog on.

A winch for a 4020 size tractor will need to be pretty darn big if the tractor is somewhat buried. I'm guessing but think 15,000# minimum if you're buried, 8000# if you just in something slick.
Not sure of your environment, but if you don't have a relatively good amount of substantial trees to strap onto, a winch won't do you much good.

I'm going to agree with beenthere. Avoid spots you believe can/will get you stuck but if needed, call upon a machine that can pull you out.

MMM · Oct 28, 2004

Spend the money on an fel. It will get you out of most jams.

Cory2 · Oct 28, 2004

We're talking about really stuck - buried to the axle. I grew up on the farm so I'm usually pretty good about avoiding trouble spots but, like this last time, what looked reasonably solid wasn't solid ground at all.

The advise people gave was useful and I appreciate it. One question to show my ignorance. When MMM said ( Spend the money on an fel) " , what a fel?

Thanks,
Cory

bczoom · Oct 28, 2004

Cory,
FEL = Front End Loader
Here's one of the Glossary threads on this site for any other acronyms we normally use. Glossary of tractor terms

If you're that buried... Hmmm. Don't know. A 15000# winch might do it. Not sure.

1bush2hog · Oct 28, 2004

If you decide to go with an electric winch, I believe you can mount these on a hitch receiver so you could switch it from front to rear of your machine. Warn offers this on some of their models.

In the areas you get stuck in, do you have something to anchor to?

Can you alter the slick areas to allow them to drain more and get rid of the wet spots?

A 94HP tractor is alot of tractor just for bush hogging, and I assume it is a 2 wheel drive only? Another thought would be to sell this and get a little lesser tractor with MFWD for not much diff in money?

Taylortractornut · Oct 28, 2004

I buy alot of old car hauler and tow truck pto winches and lob all the mechanical stuff off them except the free wheel clutch, brake and gear box. Ill mount a hydraulic motor on it and then be in business. Im building one for the 4000 Ford at work mainly a 3 point logging winch for now but next spring it will go on the front and be used to repell down a rough slope we bush hog. One thing about it on the front it needs a sub frame or you can pull a tractor apart i saw one of my winches on a 2010 Deere that was stuck over the rear fenders in mud an was hung on some debris the owner hooked a double block to it then on to a tree and would give up till it brok the bell housing casting. Fortunatley he had another junked 2010 to get this from.

Jim_Fisher · Oct 28, 2004

Cory,

( We're talking about really stuck - buried to the axle. I grew up on the farm so I'm usually pretty good about avoiding trouble spots but, like this last time, what looked reasonably solid wasn't solid ground at all. )

How awkward would it be to run duals? I see them for sale in the local farm paper (Lancaster Farming) pretty often.

MMM · Oct 28, 2004

You can use the fel to pull tractor forward or push back out of a bad spot if you don't get stupid with the tire spin first and sink to the axles. That said, I have been taken by surprise in spots with my backhoe that fel nor hoe would get me out because there's no solid ground to latch on to. I've learned to watch the ground and how it behaves while digging, looking for undulation and water coming to the surface and ease out before it turns to quicksand.

1savoy · Oct 29, 2004

Cory2,

You may want to check out www.pullpal.com These are an anchoring system the truck guys have used for years. I have thought about adding a winch for the same reasons you are. I would personally install the winch in the front. A rolling load does not require a very high line pull, but the suction from mud does. I would think you will want a winch with a rating 1.5 times the weight of your 4020. This should put you in the 15,000 lb range. You can also use a snatch block to double your line pull, but cut your line speed in half. You may want to check out Warn, Ramsey, Superwinch, and MileMarker to name a few. Sorry to ramble and good luck.

Russ

sandman2234 · Jan 30, 2006

I agree that a margin is needed for a stuck tractor, but i am wondering if it is needed since you will be driving the wheels with the tractor. If the tractor is dead, or broke, then you will need every bit of at least 1.5 times the weight.
However, a winch of that size isn't cheap, unless you find a used/not abused one. A PTO winch, with a hydraulic motor might be a better option, since they are will do a better job for less money. Plus, the electric motor has a duty cycle that you will ignore when you are faced with a stuck tractor, fading daylight, rising water, sinking tractor, etc, and end up frying the electric motor, stranding you and your tractor for hours while you go find another motor, or the neighbor you didn't want to bother.
Mounting a PTO winch of any size on the tractor could be interesting, because they tend to have some serious pull, and need to be anchored well.
The one I have sitting in the garage is a 20 ton Bradenton. Check out dead wreckers and surplus Military vehicles for them. Mine has forward/reverse on it, but most don't. Shouldn't matter if you use the right valve. Remember that unless plumbed correctly, a hydraulic motor will free-wheel when you stop pulling. (Think of stuck in a ditch, and halfway up the side, you get off to pick up your hat) The tractor will roll!! Use the correct valves to stop all movement.
David from jax

RobJ · Jan 30, 2006

WEll I've gotten a few 4020's and 4230's stuck in my life. Much to my Grandaddys disappointment. It usually only takes about 2-3 turns of the wheels to get down to the axles. Then you are talking about a 2 foot drop off rut. Of course the belly is dragging. With a 10,000 tractor you need plenty of power. A hydraulic is the only way to go. Might be able to rig a front and rear using the quick disconnects. Electric? don't know about that one. Of course I'd still steer clear of any trouble (something I couldn't do as a teen) and call the neighbor if needed. Of course a tractor is not always the best, my Uncle got 3 stuck in a row his first year of farming. All 4230's.

andrewj · Jan 30, 2006

( WEll I've gotten a few 4020's and 4230's stuck in my life. Much to my Grandaddys disappointment. It usually only takes about 2-3 turns of the wheels to get down to the axles. Then you are talking about a 2 foot drop off rut. Of course the belly is dragging. With a 10,000 tractor you need plenty of power. A hydraulic is the only way to go. Might be able to rig a front and rear using the quick disconnects. Electric? don't know about that one. Of course I'd still steer clear of any trouble (something I couldn't do as a teen) and call the neighbor if needed. Of course a tractor is not always the best, my Uncle got 3 stuck in a row his first year of farming. All 4230's. )

man I would have loved to sit at the thanksgiving table and heard the three tractor stuck story at the expense of uncle!

mrutkaus · Jan 31, 2006

What are the chances that the winch you mounted will be in the right place when you really need it?

That is I once pulled upright an overturned tractor using a portable electric winch (they have them up to a chinese-rated 15,000 lb).

A winch mounted on the front or rear wouldn't have worked...

Mike

greg_g · Jan 31, 2006

I'd personally be afraid what a 15K electric winch would do to the tractor's electrical system. They pull some serious amps, and I doubt the alternator could replenish the battery as fast as a 15K winch would drain it. Have you considered using your drive wheel(s) as a winch? As long as you haven't killed the engine, you've got plenty of built-in engine torque to pull yourself out.

Shouldn't be too hard to fabricate a large pulley with bolt holes to match your rear tire bolt pattern. Truck rims or a dual type tractor rim come to mind. Attach rated rope or chain to the "pulley rim", the other end to your anchor of choice. If it's behind you, reel in the rope/chain in reverse. If it's in front of you, reel in the chain/rope in a forward gear. If it were my project, I'd put a "pulley" on both rears, configure a Y-type chain/rope, and walk out with diff lock engaged.

//greg//

RobJ · Jan 31, 2006

[quoteman I would have loved to sit at the thanksgiving table and heard the three tractor stuck story at the expense of uncle! )

hehe, couldn't of happened to a nicer uncle if you know what I mean... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Same uncle that pull the keys from my Granddaddys tractors so I couldn't take any joy rides. The story is simple, we use to run 3 tractors to plant late soybeans in virgin ground, 1 heavy disc, second lighter disc, then a drag. After that we'd bring the drill in. One gets stuck, hook up, 2 stuck, then 3, then they're walking out. I wasn't working this field and good thing becuase somehow it would have been my fault for sure. Folks said they had never seen my grandaddy so mad, he just drove up, looked at the mess, got in and drove off without saying a word. Man that's almost worse than a beating. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Boondox · Jan 31, 2006

How about a set of double ring chains for more bite? If you're brushhogging you won't care about a little scuffing or a rough ride, and the chains would give you a better margin for getting out of mucky situations.

Pete

RonR · Jan 31, 2006

My two cents:

I'd skip the idea of a winch. Go buy some good heavy chain and/or a tow rope that's plenty heavy for what you need.

Explain to your neighbor that you really appreciate his help. Sweeten this with a promise to reciprocate, plus a nice gift certificate to the finest restaurant around every time you impose.

Tell your neighbor you hope you can get more knowledge on your property so you don't require his help & tractor as often, but that you REALLY appreciate it.

That will be much cheaper and safer than any winch. When you are talking that much weight and that big of winch, a lot of bad things can happen.

Of course, towing with another tractor is not that safe either. But you can pick your poisin.

Best wishes,
ron

Soundguy · Jan 31, 2006

( If it's behind you, reel in the rope/chain in reverse. If it's in front of you, reel in the chain/rope in a forward gear )

Hope that tractor has rops....

I think if it were me.. for safety.. I'd put the tractor in reverse.. and loop it over the rim.. and pull out forward... otherwise you risk flipping the tractor up on end.. etc. You want the engine power, against the tow rope to be putting down pressure ont he front of the tractor.

Soundguy