All,,,,,

[_RaT_]

<font color="blue">"Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice" </font>

Sound advice. Is there a problem here? I was not aware of it. Maybe I am it and that is why. Perhaps it's in forums that I simply never visit, which for the last couple of years is easily 80% of them. Sure I have a couple of people here that I consider less then favorably, but its easy to avoid them. Thats the simplest.

 

[Cityboyfarmer]

As a total noob to TBN, but a participant in trade forums (Electrical and HVAC) I'd have to say that in my experience TBN is the most civil forum I've ever participated in. HVAC guys can be the most egotistical flamers you've ever seen with the sparky's running close second. I'm qualified to say that, as I am both a licensed electrician and HVAC contractor. Just go to HVAC-Talk.com and ask for some do-it-yourself advice and watch the sharks attack. I don't participate there anymore.

I'm just not seeing the hostilities described, but maybe that's because I'm used to a whole lot worse and I'm thrilled to participate in what I percieve as the most polite forum on the internet. This site is a great resource of knowledge and experience. I don't see much to get upset about. Don't sweat the small stuff, just let it roll on off /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif That's my take on TBN and its worth exactly what you paid for it. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[LMTC]

I certainly don't know who most of these folks are, as I usually only read 4-8 forums here. But I do know some. Within those forums I have learned a few names (actually, 2 keep coming to mind), and I will not post if they are in a thread. I know there is no data, no experience, no knowledge that compares to theirs, and I will either be "corrected" or just get some inane comment (and I really don't tolerate "inane" very well, so I stay away)

I know what I don't know, I know what I know a little about, and I know what I do know. I do know the gray tractor market, I do know the gray Yanmars, I do know the implements that we use/sell and some we don't, and I do know parts for our tractors. I often pass an opportunity to caution or advise someone because I don't want to be told by someone with less than 1% of my experience with these units that I am wrong, with nothing more than their assertion to counter what I said. I can handle it once, but some posters I know will not quit unless they have the last post ...and it just gets old. Their disruptive and erroneous posts confuse others, particularly newbies.

A few months back I gave up on a thread after several posts when an individual repeatedly said I didn't know my derriere from an excavated opening in the earth despite my being supported by several other stalwarts including Bird. What's the point? This person didn't want information...they wanted an argument and a victory. My concern is that the person actually seeking the info was a bystander and was ultimately presented with some questionable info because I gave up.

My $.02 worth is that most of the chronic troublemakers are people who have some major personality issues, who have no friends to speak of (would that be a surprise?) and come here (and likely other forums until they're booted) to meet their needs (confrontation and comfirmation that they are right). I do not say this to be mean, I really believe it.

If it were mine to decide, I would have at least 2 or 3 moderators communicate with a person (hey, not everybody hits it off) and if the majority feel they are not getting a good response from the person, put them on double secret probation. Anytime 2 or more moderators agree they have violated double secret probation, they are gone for 3 months, then 6 months, then for ever. I realize this would be a lot more work....but it's my suggestion. I really think weeding is all that will work. If self awareness were a potential these folks would only step in it half the time like I do. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[ejtaylor822]

I am brand new to tractors and new to TBN. I have been reading and visiting TBN since probably January/February of this year. I did not register until May when I bought my tractor. (BTW, I followed the advice of several who have posted in this very thread and got "what I was comfortable with and that met my needs"). I can't begin to tell anyone the number of hours I have spent on this site (my wife probably can /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif). But, it has been many, many, many hours reading posts and learning.

When I first started looking into getting a tractor and doing my research it seemed like I always wound up coming back here. There is a genuineness and a willingness to help that is missing everyday life. That's one of the reasons I enjoy this site. There is a lot of knowledge and experiences shared, some good ribbing going on and a lot of people having fun.

There is also the other group. I agree with Bird and 85/15 rule, but, I believe it's less than 15% that are troublemakers. There truly are some smart and experienced people here that newbies like myself need. We didn't grow up around tractors and learn from family members. Most of the people I interact with on a daily basis have never been within 500' of a tractor. TBN is about the only place I learn.

You experienced guys, please don't give up on us that need you. Yes, there are some troublemakers that want to ruin it for everybody. I say let's really tick them off. Let's keep pressing on, share our experiences/knowledge and continue to learn and grow from one another!

BTW, when I first started coming to this site, it did not take me long to figure out who knew what they were talking about and who just liked to hear themselves pontificate - and I don't think I am alone in figuring this out....

 

[johnday]

LMTC; Your post reflects what many of us are seeing. It would seem that you would have more knowledge and experience than a good many of us, especially with the brands you represent. It appears that the problem children show up more in certain threads than others. Dealers and mechanics are very valuable to this site, don't give up. I think by the number of hits/views on this thread, that MOST of the jerkwaters have the idea. It really looks like on the forums that these guys frequent, it has settled down a bit, at least for now. A number of the misfits are identified, although not on any formal list, but at least to many of us they can be identified.

Should we boycott the bad actors? I don't think so, give them a chance to show thier butts, and then ignore them. I, myself, have had enough problems, that I don't need to look for any more.

I've thought about PMing some of the guys that have left and show them this thread, maybe they might come back?

Right now it's getting late for me, 0400 is early in anyones book. Thanks for the replies, advice, and tolerance of the few differing opinions that have been brought up. That's what this site is for. Maybe between all us, and the ones that have visited this thread, a change for the better can be had.

Thanks to all that have made this thread a success, at least in my opinion. Maybe we can break 100 on this one? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[BigAl]

"pontificate " ??? Is that really a word /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif? Remember ,your dealin with a bunch of "old worned out " mostly country folk here and big words really confuse me /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif . That sounds like something I would get in a fight over ,if I got called one /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif. But, seriously ,I am glad this good ole site and it's members have helpped you . I been around,on,under and inside tractors my whole life and continue to learn new things here all the time .
Allen

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

So, How can we keep bad apples from spoiling the bunch?

I think that, if you get a flame PM, forward it to a moderator. Let the moderators BLOCK these troublemakers immediately. Don't give PM rights to people with less than ___ posts and whom don't fill out their info. My wish would be for less than 50 posts. That way if they change their screennames, they'll have to post at least 50 times to get priviledges back.

I miss the core group that made this forum what it is.

 

[BigAl]

You know ... You make some valid points . The problem is exactly as one of the boy's already mentioned. It is a very small percentage of the group who do this .
I don't get nasty here . I think it is a privilege to post here , it is not a right . Do we punish every new member with less than 50 posts because of a few bad apples??? I don't think so. Just because a member may be new does not mean he cannot add to the knowledge of the group as a whole .If he had the answer I needed I would want his/her response .
If a poster gets personal and starts one of these flame wars I would hope a Moderator would cut in and cool things down . If a poster starts sending out PM's of a personal attack nature ,I would hope that the Moderators would remove him/her from the membership.

 

[_RaT_]

Bird, isnt that interesting. When my wife was a police officer, she mentioned how many times her calls were domestic disturbances, about 80% or more of the total calls. I later read that somewhere around 85% of police calls are domestic distrubances and of that, about 85% occur in rentals. The rest was split between home owners and businesses. Buy a house and beat the odds. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Bob_Skurka]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( So, How can we keep bad apples from spoiling the bunch?

I think that, if you get a flame PM, forward it to a moderator. Let the moderators BLOCK these troublemakers immediately. Don't give PM rights to people with less than ___ posts and whom don't fill out their info. My wish would be for less than 50 posts. That way if they change their screennames, they'll have to post at least 50 times to get priviledges back.

I miss the core group that made this forum what it is. )</font>


Kyle, I think you make some very valid points, but I have to go with BigAl on the point about PMs for new people. I get a lot of PMs, and I'd say that a large % of them come from people with 5 or fewer posts. I guess my posts are frequent enought that they feel free to ask me privately what they could just as easily ask publicly. I've even had people look me up and call me on the phone at my office to ask me questions. I'm happy to do it. PMs can be a double edge sword in a forum like this, but I think overall they are probably a much bigger asset than a problem. Again, there are a small number of trouble makers, but they seem to have a pretty big effect on TBN.

 

[Indydirtfarmer]

On the subject of PM's, rules, and newly registered members....

Once we have to impose rules on decorum, things have gone so far over the edge, we don't have what makes this such a great site anymore.

This isn't "kiddie Korner"... If people can't behave on their own, then imposing rules just generates ANOTHER way for them to MISbehave.

Bottom line... Set a good example. Don't fall victim to retaliating against someone who does you wrong. Ignore them. I'd say that Birds 85/15 theory is more to the tune of 95/5 on here. That "other 5%" will either fall in line, or get bored and leave, should everyone just ignore their efforts to start trouble.

JMHO, and well worth what you paid for it....

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Kyle, I think you make some very valid points, but I have to go with BigAl on the point about PMs for new people. I get a lot of PMs, and I'd say that a large % of them come from people with 5 or fewer posts. I guess my posts are frequent enought that they feel free to ask me privately what they could just as easily ask publicly. I've even had people look me up and call me on the phone at my office to ask me questions. I'm happy to do it. PMs can be a double edge sword in a forum like this, but I think overall they are probably a much bigger asset than a problem. Again, there are a small number of trouble makers, but they seem to have a pretty big effect on TBN.

)</font>

Bob, the people who PM you with less than 5 posts should be posting publicly. I would think that their posts are related to purchasing new equipment and this is the type of info which makes this board invaluable.

It is a privilege, not a right to post here. The board doesn't offer the 1st amendment rights. New drivers don't get full privileges either.

We are losing too many key members leaving mad.

 

[bob19]

Although I have only posted twice, I feel imposing a limit on newcomers before being eligible to send a PM would not be in the best interests of TBN'ers. I have a B2910 and have followed closely the comments of other B2910 owners and in partucular, Bob Skurka. I would be dissappointed if I would be unable to send him a PM if there was something I needed help on.

I agree that the key to this problem is for everyone to have "respect" for others. Having had over 45 years experience in Human Resources (and particuarly the labor relations area), I found that being truly respectful towards those who disagree will eventually result in a change of attitude or an understanding that was not evident initially.

This is a "GREAT" site. It was a valuable source of help before I bought my tractor and I am confident it will continue being a big help in the future.

Semper Fi

 

[RedRocker]

Where to start, I've been involved in starting a board centered around Harleys. Now you talk about opportunities for flame wars, we lived through a real doozy when a control freak went nuts and all hail broke loose. We now have a board that pretty much polices it's self. Trouble makers usually move on if you don't feed their ego. I don't think we ever banned anyone and for the most part everybody makes an effort to get along. I hate to see good folks move on, but not everybody is cut out for BB's, you have to be able to let some things slide. If you think about it, it's pretty silly to get your BP up over something somebody typed on the internet.
If I wanted to do that I could check out moveon.ugh and really get worked up, LOL. I treat everyone as if we were face to face, some don't, you just need to ignore them and they usually go away. TBN is a great board with unlimited knowledge, the creme will rise and the bad apples will move on.

 

[kensfarm]

"I been around,on,under and inside tractors my whole life and continue to learn new things here all the time ."

If we were all so wise BigAl.. life would be simple.

 

[ejtaylor822]

BigAl,
My apologies for gettin' above my raisin' – don’t mean to get anyone riled up here. I too am one of the ol' country folk, actually mountain folk from the Appalachian mountains here in North Carolina. Guess my city life rubs off more than I realize and gets me a little uppity on occasion….

My daffynition in this context:
Pon-TIF'-a-cAte: verb; someone who has a little education that exceeds their common sense that enjoys talking about a subject in which they appear to be an expert. noun; someone who enjoys the sound of their own voice, or, the words they write and believes that everyone else shares in this joy as well.
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sorry for being so silly this morning - have had about 2x the amount of coffee that I should normally have....

Seriously Al, I have learned a lot from this site. Like I said earlier, it comes from people like yourself and others in this thread that are willing to share that lifetime of experience from being under, on and in tractors and are willing to share and continue to grow.

Thanks.

 

[EddieWalker]

Interesting post.

I've notice that a few of my favorite posters haven't had any projects lately, but with so many new posters with fun projects, it never occured to me they had left.

I don't get into brand wars. What's the point?

I'm here for projects and advice for things I don't know or understand. I love to read the projects section to learn new things in areas I don't know anything about. Like old barns and ponds with character. Fun stuff with great solutions!!!

I've been flamed a few times, corrected even more times and critiqued quite a bit. It's all part of the fun. When I'm wrong, I will reply and say so. I've done it before from comments and I'm sure it will happen again. The good part of that is I learn something new!!!!

If you don't like what I'm doing, let me know. I love it. I will look at my project, evaluate your suggestions and go from there. Sometimes I totally change my plan. This happened on my entrance project. A better way was suggested, and I greatly appreciated it.

Requiring a certain number of posts to PM will just increase the number of "copy and paste" posts from those with no other purpose then to increase their posting numbers. It's the saddest thing I've come across on this site.

Just because I have over a thousand posts doesn't mean I know anything about tractors or oil or just about anything. It just means I like to post and reply. You all are the judge of wether I have anything valid to offer or not.

One thing I think might be helpful is to have a validation or a vote on members. Only positive votes, not like ebay. If you read a post from a member that gives good advice, you can give them a vote, a star or a whatever. Members with lots of these votes would stand out as somebody the rest of us respect and admire.

It would have to be one vote per member to avoid the American Idle syndrome of multiple votes.

Not sure how to do this, but I've seen it on other sites, and when I read a post from that person, it gives more weight to what they have to say.

Eddie Walker

 

[DrRod]

Actually, I find this an incredibly upbeat place. I came on the site knowing virtually nothing about tractors and within a month I can hold my own discussing options with a dealer. And the info about other facets of country living has been great. In fact, I spend way too much time here reading instead of working (its a personal problem /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif). I wish I could personnally thank all of the people who respond to my questions and offer advice.

 

[Mith]

On a slightly side note, I think ranking shoud be based on how long people have been on this site, therefore you wont get people trying to raise their status by posting junk. Also people who just talk alot, like me, wont be high ranking members when they dont deserve it.

I mean you cant have visited this site for a year and not know an awful lot about campact tractors

 

[_RaT_]

Oh man Eddie, I just learned something about myself. I'm pontificous. I will have to remember that the next time I put my mouth in gear without engaging my brain. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif