mike194
Silver Member
a charpy v notch test would settle this one
Aluminum really inferior for tractors???
- Thread starter Henro
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mike194
Silver Member
i would assume impact toughness is the single most import factor
Toolguy
Platinum Member
My B3030 axle housings are most definitely aluminum. The top cover on the the differential housing, where you fill and check the level of fluid, is cast iron, though. Could someone check the part numbers of the axle housings and see if they are different than the B7800 and B2910.? We might as well get this settled once and for all. Personally, I could care less what the other models are made of. It is not a "mine is better than yours" thing at all. I am just going by the fact that many times on TBN there have been comments that the B3030 was the deluxe version of the B7800 and the updated version of the B2910. That's all. Thanks.
Charolais
Platinum Member
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Tractors have for the most part been made of cast iron over a long period of time now.
The big thing for me with this change to aluminum is it should be advertised as such. Just from reading this thread it seems folks have purchased the tractors and had no idea a change had been made. I know I'd be ticked to find that either of my tractors had aluminum any place on them other than small parts like oil filter heads and such.
On the side line to this thread is the 4wd discussion. I've ran tractors with 4wd. They are powerful for their size and are needed in some operations. Before I bought my last tractor I watched others in my area that used 4wd for feeding cattle in the winter. What I saw was they would go in almost any condition. What I didn't like was they make a bigger mess in mud and even deeper ruts. I use every in of soil here for grass. Pushing the grass in the bottom of a rut isn't what I'm looking for. I was raised to take care of the soil because the soil takes care of me. So if I'm going to change areas for feeding anyway because of wet conditions I don't need the 4wd. If I were pulling heavy tillage equipment I'd have gone with 4wd.
The big thing for me with this change to aluminum is it should be advertised as such. Just from reading this thread it seems folks have purchased the tractors and had no idea a change had been made. I know I'd be ticked to find that either of my tractors had aluminum any place on them other than small parts like oil filter heads and such.
On the side line to this thread is the 4wd discussion. I've ran tractors with 4wd. They are powerful for their size and are needed in some operations. Before I bought my last tractor I watched others in my area that used 4wd for feeding cattle in the winter. What I saw was they would go in almost any condition. What I didn't like was they make a bigger mess in mud and even deeper ruts. I use every in of soil here for grass. Pushing the grass in the bottom of a rut isn't what I'm looking for. I was raised to take care of the soil because the soil takes care of me. So if I'm going to change areas for feeding anyway because of wet conditions I don't need the 4wd. If I were pulling heavy tillage equipment I'd have gone with 4wd.
Soundguy
Old Timer
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- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
I have an interesting observation to make, of course, concerning antiques.
I know of a few examples where cast aluminum parts were used on early models, that were then replaced my cast iron parts.. and in some cases, stamped steel parts.
This includes items like hydro pump castings, steering gearboxes and support pedistals, casting access covers, and even L-heads... etc. Interesting that aluminum has made it full circle.. Was used early.. like inthe 30's.. then went out and was replaced by Ci or steel.. and has now come back into use.. perhaps as stronger alloys and metalurgy/machining process have evolved..
Soundguy
I know of a few examples where cast aluminum parts were used on early models, that were then replaced my cast iron parts.. and in some cases, stamped steel parts.
This includes items like hydro pump castings, steering gearboxes and support pedistals, casting access covers, and even L-heads... etc. Interesting that aluminum has made it full circle.. Was used early.. like inthe 30's.. then went out and was replaced by Ci or steel.. and has now come back into use.. perhaps as stronger alloys and metalurgy/machining process have evolved..
Soundguy
Farmwithjunk
Super Member
slowrev said:Not flat here
Parts of Kentucky IS flat. VERTICAL. But flat
Bob_Young
Veteran Member
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Charolais,
I agree completely with your points on aluminum construction. People should be aware of what materials are used in the basic structure of their tractor before parting with their money. The assumption (that I held) that tractors are basically an engine, gearbox, wheels and tires held together by a lot of steel and cast iron is no longer true. That's fine if the aluminum (or whatever) can go the distance; but that's an unknown at this point. I'm pretty happy with the little B7610 and, in it's primary role as a mower/residential helper, it probably doesn't make any difference. I'm now somewhat leary, however, of taking it on firewood expeditions to the woods where it might see rough usage.
It's telling that there's a side debate going in this thread about whether the B7800 and B2910 have the same aluminum rearend as the B3030. For the same strength, I'd expect the B3030 rear to be so much larger dimensionally than an iron rearend, that the difference would be readily apparent. It appears that the castings are so similar that one wonders if aluminum were simply substituted for iron.
Your point about 4WD is also well taken. I'm finding that I can usually tell where my L4300 with its loaded R1s has been, even when not in 4WD. When it gets on the lawn, it always makes more work. For now, the added traction is well worth the tradeoff, but to tread softly unloaded 2WD is better.
Bob
I agree completely with your points on aluminum construction. People should be aware of what materials are used in the basic structure of their tractor before parting with their money. The assumption (that I held) that tractors are basically an engine, gearbox, wheels and tires held together by a lot of steel and cast iron is no longer true. That's fine if the aluminum (or whatever) can go the distance; but that's an unknown at this point. I'm pretty happy with the little B7610 and, in it's primary role as a mower/residential helper, it probably doesn't make any difference. I'm now somewhat leary, however, of taking it on firewood expeditions to the woods where it might see rough usage.
It's telling that there's a side debate going in this thread about whether the B7800 and B2910 have the same aluminum rearend as the B3030. For the same strength, I'd expect the B3030 rear to be so much larger dimensionally than an iron rearend, that the difference would be readily apparent. It appears that the castings are so similar that one wonders if aluminum were simply substituted for iron.
Your point about 4WD is also well taken. I'm finding that I can usually tell where my L4300 with its loaded R1s has been, even when not in 4WD. When it gets on the lawn, it always makes more work. For now, the added traction is well worth the tradeoff, but to tread softly unloaded 2WD is better.
Bob
whodat90
Silver Member
One point that hasn't been brought up on the 2wd/4wd debate yet is that with a 4wd, you can shift into 2wd. With a 2wd, you can't switch into 4wd. Yesterday I was helping a neighbor move a car out of a barn over a hump onto asphalt. I put my tractor (b7200d) into 1st at idle and tried pulling. Spun a rear tire (on the asphalt, with turf tires) Tried the difflock, slowly spun both rear tires. Popped it into 4wd, and it pulled the car out no problem. Wasn't till we had the thing out of the barn that we realized he left it in gear. Then I popped it back into 2wd and drove home. Also, on my size tractor at least, 4wd can make up for lack of weight when using tillers and such. In 2wd my tractor gets thrown around by my tiller (very rocky soil) whereas in 4wd it just trudges along. Finally, do 2wd tractors have brakes on the front wheels? Mine only has brakes on the rears, and the 4wd transfers braking torque to the front wheels just as well as engine torque. Stops scads better in 4wd than it does in 2wd.
whodat
Edit: Quiz: What's at the top of the washington monument and why?
whodat
Edit: Quiz: What's at the top of the washington monument and why?
slowrev
Elite Member
whodat90 said:
aluminum I believe. At that time it cost more than gold I believe and did not rust.
Soundguy
Old Timer
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- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
I think the turfs were your problem.. etc.. reduced traction. It may very well be that if you would have had ag tires.. the 2wd and diffy lock would have been fine.. In your case with reduced traction tires.. it took 4 of them onthe ground to get the needed traction to do the job.
In general, 4wd tractors are more expensive than 2wd units.. have slightly more maintenance costs, and tire choices are much more limited.
Those of us that have applications and environments that don't warrant the extra needed traction.. sometimes don't feel the need to purchase a few thousand more dollars of non-hp tractor components.
I'f had my 4wd truck stuck ( in 2wd ) in my pasture when i first bought it. 4wd walke dit out pretty good. I've also had that truck stuck in 4wd on a soft dirt road... Interestingly enough i drove down the back side of that same dirt road... the really bad side... with my 2wd tractor and pulle dmy 4wd truck out with my 2wd tractor. I only had the wife with me to help.. and didn't feel comfortable with her ability to judge throttle and 'help' the truck out .. so i just let her steer the truck... ( driving the tractor would have been out of the question. ). My point is.. 2 big ag tires did what 4 reduced traction tires couldn't.. In fact.. those 2 big ag tires pulle dthe tractor -and- the truck thru the bad stuff.... It's all a matter of application and circumstance as to what someone needs at any given time.
I've had a smaller 4wd tractor.. and did use 4wd a couple times.. once, when discing, and once when trying to cross an area I shouldn't have. 4wd helped with steering when discing.. and when I got stuck.. the 4wd just made sure I was REALLY stuck...
Soundguy
In general, 4wd tractors are more expensive than 2wd units.. have slightly more maintenance costs, and tire choices are much more limited.
Those of us that have applications and environments that don't warrant the extra needed traction.. sometimes don't feel the need to purchase a few thousand more dollars of non-hp tractor components.
I'f had my 4wd truck stuck ( in 2wd ) in my pasture when i first bought it. 4wd walke dit out pretty good. I've also had that truck stuck in 4wd on a soft dirt road... Interestingly enough i drove down the back side of that same dirt road... the really bad side... with my 2wd tractor and pulle dmy 4wd truck out with my 2wd tractor. I only had the wife with me to help.. and didn't feel comfortable with her ability to judge throttle and 'help' the truck out .. so i just let her steer the truck... ( driving the tractor would have been out of the question. ). My point is.. 2 big ag tires did what 4 reduced traction tires couldn't.. In fact.. those 2 big ag tires pulle dthe tractor -and- the truck thru the bad stuff.... It's all a matter of application and circumstance as to what someone needs at any given time.
I've had a smaller 4wd tractor.. and did use 4wd a couple times.. once, when discing, and once when trying to cross an area I shouldn't have. 4wd helped with steering when discing.. and when I got stuck.. the 4wd just made sure I was REALLY stuck...
Soundguy
