Am I wrong?

[EddieWalker]

Interesting situation. For $2,000 he doesn't need a lawyer, just file it in small claims court and start the process to put a lien on your place. While he is way off on his estimate, there doesn't seem to be any sort of contract on what he would charge. Just the estimate.

His failure to inform you that he was wrong on the estimate reflects allot about the guy. Probably having money problems and raising his rates while on the job to make more money.

Here, it's fairly common for some of the less desirable operators to streth the number of hours worked by a fair margin. They will add driving time to the job, coffee drinking time, greasing and fueling time, repairs and cleaning time and if that's not enough, then just plain out lie about how many hours they were operating the machine. I still hire out work from time to time, and when I do, I keep my own record of the hours they work. Before hiring them, I make sure we are on the same page on what I'm paying for. If it's hourly, then I specify it's hours running the maching, not hours thinking about it.

Many well known and fairly big companies fall apart when the owner starts drinking, gets a divorce or gets in over his head gabling. The list goes on and on, but there is that point when a good reputation goes out the window and they start taking advantage of clients.

Sounds like you were taken advantage of.

Eddie

 

[firefighter9208]

Leadpoison,


What state are you in??? In Alabama there is no sales tax on labor. Dozier work would be considered labor. Now if he installed a drainage pipe for you, then you would have to pay sales tax on the pipe, but not the installation. At least in Alabama that's the way it works.


Chris

 

[jinman]

I see several issues that will probably come up if this goes to a legal case or even binding arbitration. I'm no lawyer, so this is just my instinct talking.

Since there was an "estimate," it's my opinion that you should have established how much over the estimate you would be willing to go with out approving more work. For example, if it was estimated at $4,000, then you would say up to $500 more before getting additional time approved. Evidently there was no such agreement.

You also said that he did all the work you wanted, but you thought it took too long. In actuality, you got all the work accomplished, not more or less. If you say it took too long, then you will have to supply expert witnesses who can testify that the job took too long. Those experts will have to be uninterested third parties rather than relatives or friends of yours who might have bias.

Finally, I think you will have to show that you did not know how much time he was putting in. If he quoted you an hourly rate, then can you show that you had no idea of how long he was on the job? If you knew he was working longer hours, then you probably had some responsibility to ask him before he used more of his time.

Sadly, neither you nor he will be happy with the outcome. I won't lecture you about what you should have done because that's obvious in hindsight. The most you can hope for is a compromise you can live with. Just keep a cool head and work through this to best solution.

 

[George2615]

I was also charged 8.5% tax. I was a little shocked on that one as well. If he is trying to hide the income I don't think he would charge tax. Has anyone ever been charged tax for tractor/dozer work?

By the way he says he is going to sue and put a lein on the place. I would rather do some type of arbitration through the BBB for sure. I am sticking to my gut on this one and I am willing to go the extra mile.

If he is going to sue then I would contact the BBB or the small claims court clerk to speak with someone about this.

He gave you a verbal estimate for the work to be done. He did the work and you paid him the verbally estimated price he quoted.

If his fee to you was going to exceed the estimate he should have contacted you before continuing. Its not your fault he underestimated the job.

I'm not a lawyer either but without anything in writing or unless you verbally agreed to pay him more money should the job take more time to complete I don't think he has a leg to stand on trying to charge you more than the agreed estimated price.

 

[kthompson]

As has been pointed out the sales tax varies from state to state.
Just because he charged or showed sales tax does not mean he is paying it to the state. Our state takes real offense to that.
Verbal contracts can be binding, just hard to enforce.
Can you figure out how long he was on the job? If so does it work out to what he said.
As to the BBB, my experience with them is worthless. You do realize they are a business and have no legal authority, don't you?
If the amount in dispute is $2,000 and this is the 150% he charge over what was given, that had to be only about $1,300 to begin with. Is that reasonable for what he was to do?
Sadly as others have said, a technique of sorry people to get job and then get more money, maybe what it should have been quoted at to begin with.

This reminds me of a case in small claims court here the last time I was on jury duty. A couple I knew (why I did not sit on the case) hired a guy to put in septic tank and system with verbal price. He billed for a few hundred more. Do not remember who sued who but per the judge who I saw the next day he admitted on the stand he did work and then billed for it that was not in what he was hired for. He thought it needed doing or such.

 

[dodge man]

I am a land surveyor and everything we do requires a contract. We have two basic ways of doing work, "time and materials", and "lump sum". Sometimes we say "time and materials not to exceed", that way there is an upper limit. Even when we do a straight time and materials we put down a price range of say "$1500-$2000" and in bold text it says "ESTIMATE". I'm not trying to take his side, but it was an estimate. In the example I gave, I would not feel bad billing the client $2500 for the job. On the other hand, there is no way I could bill $5000 unless the client added work. It's at my bosses descretion how much to bill, but we rarely bill much beyond the upper limit listed in our contract.

In other words, 2.5 times greater is way to much, but I can't adivise you what to do since you don't have a written contract. Don't feel bad, I have had a lot of home improvement work done without a contract, and so far, no problems.

And in Illinois, we don't charge sales tax for our services.

 

[LeadPoison]

I am in Mississippi. Basically he told me 16-20 hours. I got billed for 44.5. I have the dates of work listed on the invoice. It was spread out over 3 weeks. So I did not know when he was there and wasn't. No consitency.

 

[DWCox]

Aside from your initial question, I would be curious how an individual plans to walk in off the street and successfully put a lien on your property for any sum that pleases them without demonstrating evidence. Your lawyer should be able to take care of that with little problem.

Obviously verbal agreements are legally binding; but proving the terms of such agreements is another thing altogether--particularly if those terms are disputed. In the end this contractor is likely to discover that a clearly-written contract is as necessary for him as it would prove useful for you.

 

[dodge man]

You can file a lein for a small fee in the courthouse. At that time you don't have to prove anything. It doesn't really even mean anything until you go to sell the property, then it has to be resolved.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

I'm the same way. Most of my business is done verbally and sealed with a handshake. The day I have to stop doing business that way is the day I stop doing business. You have witnesses. Get a lawyer. It is not reasonable for him to go over by this amount without consulting you. Launch a pre-emptive strike. Have a lawyer write him a letter stating the terms you agreed upon and that your payment was considered the final and full payment.