Dirt Moving An understanding on the age old debate of geared/hydro

[MossRoad]

Have you tried letting UP on the go pedal before the tires start spinning? If you mash the forward pedal, that's like shifting into a higher gear and you'll never gain traction back until you let off the pedal. Backing off the pedal is like shifting down.

 

[MossRoad]

HST vs gear making difference in traction is one of the craziest things I have heard.

It's not crazy. It might be mistaken, it might be true, but its not crazy. It's a discussion.

 

[k0ua]

It's not crazy. It might be mistaken, it might be true, but its not crazy. It's a discussion.

Well, we all know that tire type, tire pressure, tire design, weight and weight distribution of the tractor, all have an effect on traction, but if the hydrostatic transmission is not going into relief itself, and will spin the tires, the hydro is not the limiting factor here.

 

[MossRoad]

I agree.

 

[Fallon]

Well, we all know that tire type, tire pressure, tire design, weight and weight distribution of the tractor, all have an effect on traction, but if the hydrostatic transmission is not going into relief itself, and will spin the tires, the hydro is not the limiting factor here.

I concur 100%. Unless you count being able to jab the go pedal to try & break traction (basically the same as dropping the clutch) or weight differences, it has no bearing.

 

[LD1]

Well, we all know that tire type, tire pressure, tire design, weight and weight distribution of the tractor, all have an effect on traction, but if the hydrostatic transmission is not going into relief itself, and will spin the tires, the hydro is not the limiting factor here.

Yes.

Alot of variables can effect traction. HST vs Gear is not one of them

 

[arrow]

t.

For those that complain about a HST not going up a hill in high range... Would your gear machine make it up in high? I'm quite sure the answer is no. You'd stall the machine. .

I couldn't be sure on this premise. The reason being is that calling a gear "high" correlates to what speed or torque on a hydro? I have a hill here that the tractor can go up in 5th gear which is a "high" range (the tractor only having two ranges). How does this correlate to a hydro? is a hydro like 6th,7th or 8th on a geared tractor? I cannot go up this hill in 7th or 8th again which is in "high" range. What furthers the discussion is rpm needed for the same work. I mean I can fly up this 30% grade in 5th with the tractor decked. My choice however is not to wind the engine for this type of task. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems with a hydro, production corresponds to engine rpm meaning to go a certain speed or conquer a certain terrain, the hydro needs to rev. This was only one of the parts that turned me off to only the two particular hydros I tried here.
For what I was doing in Kentucky, I would want a hydro in a heart beat.

Now I'd like an education please: I want to move some pallets that have wood stacked on them. I need to go slowly for this act so as to not have wood tumble all over the place. If I put my geared machine in first, I can crawl with these things at an idle which is like 6-700 rpm. Would this also be evident with a hydro?

 

[MossRoad]

My IH2500b (50HP Hydro tractor loader, gas engine, about 8000#) operators manual says to alway run the tractor at PTO RPMs for maximum power AND cooling AND braking, no matter what the ground speed of travel is.

The engine turns a pump.
The pump pushes fluid.
The fluid turns a motor.
The motor turns a shaft.
The shaft goes into a range selector.
Mine had HI and LO, so really, it only had TWO GEARS!
The range selector goes into the differential.
The differential turns the wheels.

So to lift your pallet of wood, put the HYDRO in LO range, put the RPMS to PTO and move along at the desired speed by pressing or letting off the pedal(s). If the RPMs aren't night enough, the machine will balk.

Now you're going to hear a bunch of people tell us that its not necessary to run a HYDRO tractor at that high of RPM's, and it may not be.

However, by not running it at high RPMs, and putting a load on it, that creates a rapid increase in the temperature of the hydraulic fluid. The pump can't push it through the cooler fast enough, and the heat builds up in the fluid and components and can cause premature fluid degradation and component wear.

Is that serious? Maybe. But really, how many people DON'T run their hydros at the rated RPM and never, ever have a problem with the machine? Probably most of them! :laughing:

 

[k0ua]

I couldn't be sure on this premise. The reason being is that calling a gear "high" correlates to what speed or torque on a hydro? I have a hill here that the tractor can go up in 5th gear which is a "high" range (the tractor only having two ranges). How does this correlate to a hydro? is a hydro like 6th,7th or 8th on a geared tractor? I cannot go up this hill in 7th or 8th again which is in "high" range. What furthers the discussion is rpm needed for the same work. I mean I can fly up this 30% grade in 5th with the tractor decked. My choice however is not to wind the engine for this type of task. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems with a hydro, production corresponds to engine rpm meaning to go a certain speed or conquer a certain terrain, the hydro needs to rev. This was only one of the parts that turned me off to only the two particular hydros I tried here.
For what I was doing in Kentucky, I would want a hydro in a heart beat.

Now I'd like an education please: I want to move some pallets that have wood stacked on them. I need to go slowly for this act so as to not have wood tumble all over the place. If I put my geared machine in first, I can crawl with these things at an idle which is like 6-700 rpm. Would this also be evident with a hydro?

You can go much slower with a hydro if you wish, and in the same range you can speed up and slow down as the terrain requires.

 

[arrow]

You can go much slower with a hydro if you wish, and in the same range you can speed up and slow down as the terrain requires.

I like this because I'm a picture type of learner. James, you were at what appeared to be at idle. Depending on how hard you hit the peddle depends on the speed of movement correct? You moved at the same rate whether at higher rpms or idle. I thought it was counterintuitive to mash a hydro as it automatically put you in higher ranges. Unless Kioti does something differently with theirs, I'm not quite getting a handle. How much work can be done with your tractor w/o revving? In other words, using first gear today on mine drove me nuts. Just too slow. I popped into third and at an idle, moved at a better or satisfying speed. Still able to go slowly but at a quicker slow and still do work. From your demo, it looks as if your tractor could do the same so why crank up the throttle?. I've come to hate palletized wood but that's another post all by itself especially that I wanted to love this method. Tractor speed had nothing to do with this however.