Another backhoe question

[murraya8922]

I know the "backhoe or not" subject has been discussed many times here. I have read many of the threads. Love all the knowledge here. I seem to read either:
-Everyone is crazy, mine is great
-Waste of money overall

My question is... if I don't expect the BH to be a mini-ex, and I do my projects SLOWLY and CAREFULLY, couldn't I get a lot done?? Manage expectations, but still:
-Dig trenches for power/water lines
-SLOWLY dig stumps
-Little by little pond
-Little by little root cellar
-Footings for barn/house/shop foundation

I have 6.4 acres of heavily wooded raw land that I will be making into a full time homestead from scratch myself. So the BH would get a huge amount of work.
I am buying a Branson 4820H in March. I was quoted $7,500 for the BH. Ballpark an extra $90/month on the loan payment. In my area, a mini ex for a weekend (still work full time, mostly remotely) is ballpark $400 for the weekend. So, about 19 rentals.

If the BH is CAPEABLE of doing things WITH TIME, I would 100% rather take the time and do my projects right, than rent and rush. Not to mention I work on call all over the country, so even scheduling rental is very difficult.

So I guess my main question is: Is a Branson BH250 actually useful when used correctly and personally (no commercial, so length of projects if more or less irrelevant) or would I be better off with a shovel?

Thank you all.

 

[K5lwq]

I think you will find it useful but I would not want to dig a pond with one. Nice choice on the tractor though!

 

[Robert_M]

I wouldn’t want a tractor without one. Its all what you need/want.

 

[murraya8922]

I think you will find it useful but I would not want to dig a pond with one. Nice choice on the tractor though!

I can see what you mean about the pond. Definitely not ideal, ha. I was thinking of kind of straddling the area and digging as far as I could from each direction. Making a ramp with the loader down into the dug area and dig the sides out/deeper. Little by little! More of project than a necessity.
Thank you for your response.

 

[EddieWalker]

I have a 1998 New Holland 555E full sized loader/backhoe. In my opinion, it is the best single machine for clearing the land and moving dirt. It's not the best at anything, but it is the only machine that does it all. At 80hp, it's a little underpowered for the bigger trees. A lot of the time, I have to cut the trees into smaller lengths to move them to the burn pile. I haven't found a tree that's too big to take down, but it's also borderline for some of the bigger trees.

My neighbor has a newer, bigger, more powerful backhoe then mine. He can lift more with his, but he still has to cut some trees up to get them to the burn pile. He has more land then me, and he has more money then me. A lot of the time he hires an excavator to take out trees on his place. An 8 ton excavator is night and day better at clearing the land then my full sized backhoe. It's not even close at how much faster it is.

I've only seen a few 3pt backhoes on ag tractors, and they all seemed better then nothing. The people that owned them all had good things to say about them, but they also said that they are very limited in what they can do. I've never operated a 3pt backhoe.

In my opinion, for what you are going to be doing, I think you would get a lot more done, a lot faster and safer, if you rented an excavator and used a grapple on the tractor to clean up the debris. When you need to dig footings for your buildings, an excavator is also night and day better then a backhoe. When you dig footings, you want to have the forms set, and it is impossible to use a backhoe to dig along forms because of the tires and outriggers.

When you are done with the excavator, you will be able to sell it for what you paid for it if you take care of it. Used equipment rarely depreciates. You cannot say that about the 3pt backhoe attachment. It will never be worth what you paid for it.

 

[Carl_NH]

A BH on a tractor is invaluable as a tool for maintaining your property and strongly suggest getting a grapple on the loader for cleaning and clearing up debris from stumping your property.

But as Eddie states, get an excavator for the big work - a 30-40K machine (15-20 ton) rents for $5-6K per month and you can get a lot done in that time. You can find these size machines with 4-5000 hours for under $40K then sell it when you finish your projects.

Then it depends on your location, ground, and rocks or is it sandy soil (means easy digging)?

 

[murraya8922]

I have a 1998 New Holland 555E full sized loader/backhoe. In my opinion, it is the best single machine for clearing the land and moving dirt. It's not the best at anything, but it is the only machine that does it all. At 80hp, it's a little underpowered for the bigger trees. A lot of the time, I have to cut the trees into smaller lengths to move them to the burn pile. I haven't found a tree that's too big to take down, but it's also borderline for some of the bigger trees.

My neighbor has a newer, bigger, more powerful backhoe then mine. He can lift more with his, but he still has to cut some trees up to get them to the burn pile. He has more land then me, and he has more money then me. A lot of the time he hires an excavator to take out trees on his place. An 8 ton excavator is night and day better at clearing the land then my full sized backhoe. It's not even close at how much faster it is.

I've only seen a few 3pt backhoes on ag tractors, and they all seemed better then nothing. The people that owned them all had good things to say about them, but they also said that they are very limited in what they can do. I've never operated a 3pt backhoe.

In my opinion, for what you are going to be doing, I think you would get a lot more done, a lot faster and safer, if you rented an excavator and used a grapple on the tractor to clean up the debris. When you need to dig footings for your buildings, an excavator is also night and day better then a backhoe. When you dig footings, you want to have the forms set, and it is impossible to use a backhoe to dig along forms because of the tires and outriggers.

When you are done with the excavator, you will be able to sell it for what you paid for it if you take care of it. Used equipment rarely depreciates. You cannot say that about the 3pt backhoe attachment. It will never be worth what you paid for it.

I appreciate such a long response! Several good points.

I was a heavy equipment operator for about 6 years, and I agree 100% with you! An excavator, tracked skid steer, or a true backhoe are all better options, no question. Closed thing I could "afford" that could do more than one task was a TLB. I priced out a Kubota L47 TLB at about $60,000 MSRP. Would be such an amazing machine to have, but that is serious $$$. Also, I am trying to Swiss Army knife things a bit. I really will need the 3 point for my brush hog and tiller in the future. Kind of a goldilocks machine, but nearly double the price without the grapple.

I was quoted $39,700 for:
- Branson 4820H
- Loader
- 72" Grapple and 3rd function
- 72" Landscape rake
- 4k Pallet forks
- Auger
- 72" Tiller
- 72" Brush hog

Very much a Swiss Army knife type set up. I'll really have to consider clearing what I can, and saving the excavator tasks up until I know I have a free weekend to rent one.

Very very good point about the footings. I didn't even think about that.

 

[murraya8922]

A BH on a tractor is invaluable as a tool for maintaining your property and strongly suggest getting a grapple on the loader for cleaning and clearing up debris from stumping your property.

But as Eddie states, get an excavator for the big work - a 30-40K machine (15-20 ton) rents for $5-6K per month and you can get a lot done in that time. You can find these size machines with 4-5000 hours for under $40K then sell it when you finish your projects.

Then it depends on your location, ground, and rocks or is it sandy soil (means easy digging)?

Good to hear. And as my land was logged about 8 years ago, I am 100% getting the grapple. I've got more debris than you can imagine! Will help a ton getting it piled up.

Ah, I had never thought about buying one and selling it! I'll so some searching. As for renting one for a longer time, I do not disagree at all. But I work oil/gas on call. They are really good about my schedule compared to my last company, but I still get emergency calls. Sometimes it's one really long (35 hour?? haha) "day", sometimes its over a week. Or scheduled things like now, where it's a month. So I don't want to get bit renting something and not being able to use it. I tanked $4k on my other property for just such a reason with a bulldozer. Rental PTSD haha. But seriously, that stung.

Soil (as far as I can tell with a spade in a few spots) it's actually decent! A little red clay, but not a bunch, and nearly rock free. I shall see when I get a few feet deep though.

 

[loggin]

All good information here!! I would also like to point out that it depends on the type of footing you are intending to dig. Shop and barn footings are usually quite shallow and typically do not require a large machine. However if you are needing to dig past a frost line then a bigger machine becomes more important especially if you have hard soil and or large rocks. You never know whats lurking below until you get in there.

Having said that I really appreciate my backhoe on the back of my tractor and would not want to be without one again. I don't use it that often but when I do it's there. Having another machine to maintain while it just mostly sits is another consideration. Then again having another machine to work on the broken down one is also handy. Oh boy, this could go on forever.....

Good luck with your decision making!! I know it's not always easy...

 

[Stonehaller]

I was clearing land as a weekend warrior and was very glad to have my own TLB rather than trying to arrange rentals. You will not regret having a backhoe even after your clearing work is done.

With the size tractor you are getting, you may want to consider an 84" land scape rake rather 72". Gage wheels for the land scape rake help immensely for finish grading. I did a lot of finish grading work with a box blade and land scape rake. Eventually, I got a good deal on a used Harley rake and never used the land scape rake again.

 

[Carl_NH]

Since it was logged 8 years ago you some slash and stumps left, but those will be partially rotted and easier to pull. if the new growth trees are 5-8" you might be able to get a dozer with scarifiers for a few days to remove the new and old stumps pretty quickly on a few acres.

But if you want one machine that does it all then get an excavator with a front blade - most of the 10-12 ton machines can do stumps and is not too big.

 

[caver]

I had a new Kioti LB1914 and got it with a Rhino backhoe. Fun but often it wasn't up to the task. The little hoe was strong for its size but would throw the tractor around. I traded that off a few years later for a used Dk40 and not long after found a '92 580K with less than 3k hours on it. My area is hilly and rocky. At times I regretted not buying a low hour used Kubota mini ex. I do like now I can leave the brush cutter on my tractor all summer. Putting that subframe backhoe on and off wasn't hard solo but could easily take me 20-30 minutes.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

A small backhoe can do a lot including digging a 30,000 gallon pool (break the banks and move dirt with front bucket), installing and trenching for inspected/approved septic field, electrical tranches 36" deep to machine sheds, removal of stumps, water lines to gardens, etc....
Stumping I can generally do 5 pine tree stumps per hour, 14" avg. diameter, from freshly fallen trees on a b2620 or an l3301.
Footing for a 2,000 sq. foot shop took half a day.
150' electrical trench down to 36" in sandy soils about 3 hours.
Super nice to have it when and where wanted with no notice or worry of picking up and getting it back to rental shop.
But on the downside it could make you super popular around your village or wherever you live.
Slower than a big bucketed excavator, weaker than a mini ex. but sure valuable to me.
I am well experienced and careful with my stuff. I could do some pretty stupid things with my BH that could wreck stuff but I simply don't push it rather take my time, use my head, and have yet to have O-sh@t moments. We were tought in grade school farming classes smooth is fast, steady is safe, and getting home at end of day is the goal.

Cheers

 

[Wolfy]

My father has a 9000 Woods backhoe on his Kubota, we used to use it alot for digging deck piers. For digging stumps, it is not the right machine. Way too small and you really are beating the tractor for nothing. For your uses, I would look for an older Ford or Case backhoe. Ive seen some steller open cab models go really cheap because nobody wants them. A friend of mine offered to sell me a Ford 3550 which I bought, I put some money in it, but Im in for less than one months rental of a backhoe. At 50 hp and 10,000 lbs its a very nice homeowner size rig, especially with the front forks mine came with. No question excavators are best but not everyone can justify them, plus the front bucket on mine sees as much use as the hoe.

 

[hornett22]

It's very useful. You'll find that there are uses for it you never realized. For example, drainage issues, cleaning out a culvert, planting trees , ripping out bushes, brush, bamboo. I use mine to clean out debris in my creeks when the get filled up with debris. Ever need a water line or to run power to a shed or barn? Dead livestock or large pet?

They're really handy to have. Rentals here are a pain. You'll spend two hours calling around to find a machine. Time to get it. Hope it's functioning 100% which is rare, limited hours allowed, returning it , making sure you fill it with fuel.

No thanks, I'll take the backhoe.

 

[AndyMA]

I'm another who wouldn't have a tractor without. My last 6 tractors have all had backhoes. My current Kubota MX5200 has a BH92. I use it all time for everything the OP mentioned. I even use it with the mechanical thumb to hold logs to cut into firewood lenght.

Andy

 

[ning]

I know the "backhoe or not" subject has been discussed many times here. I have read many of the threads. Love all the knowledge here. I seem to read either:
-Everyone is crazy, mine is great
-Waste of money overall

My question is... if I don't expect the BH to be a mini-ex, and I do my projects SLOWLY and CAREFULLY, couldn't I get a lot done?? Manage expectations, but still:
-Dig trenches for power/water lines
-SLOWLY dig stumps
-Little by little pond
-Little by little root cellar
-Footings for barn/house/shop foundation

I have 6.4 acres of heavily wooded raw land that I will be making into a full time homestead from scratch myself. So the BH would get a huge amount of work.
I am buying a Branson 4820H in March. I was quoted $7,500 for the BH. Ballpark an extra $90/month on the loan payment. In my area, a mini ex for a weekend (still work full time, mostly remotely) is ballpark $400 for the weekend. So, about 19 rentals.

If the BH is CAPEABLE of doing things WITH TIME, I would 100% rather take the time and do my projects right, than rent and rush. Not to mention I work on call all over the country, so even scheduling rental is very difficult.

So I guess my main question is: Is a Branson BH250 actually useful when used correctly and personally (no commercial, so length of projects if more or less irrelevant) or would I be better off with a shovel?

Thank you all.

-Everyone is crazy, mine is great
-Waste of money overall

Both are correct.
If it was all about cash, you'd get more done renting.

If you consider time spent, and being able to use it when you need to, having the backhoe is fantastic.

I use mine a fair amount. So far if you add up all the times I've used it as either half or full day rentals, I might now have just come out ahead vs renting after 5 years.

However, I can dig one hole and be done with it without an extra two hour trip to town, rent, go home, and then again to return it; without taking all that time I can get a lot more done.

Basically for small to medium jobs, though my backhoe is slow relatively speaking - it may take me an hour to do what a mini-ex got done in 15 minutes - but when you add on all the time associated with renting, my backhoe comes out far ahead.

If I had a serious concentrated digging job, for the same reason (my time is precious) I would rent a more appropriate machine for that job.

 

[4570Man]

I used to have a tractor backhoe and I used it a lot. I didn’t realize that it was lacking because it was all that I had and it was better than a shovel. Renting isn’t a very practical option. I’ll rent a tool if I need it like once but much beyond that and I buy my own. I have a mini excavator now that’s obviously a lot better but that’s a different price point. I say that if you can afford the backhoe and think you have a reasonable use you should go for it. If you have any really ambitious projects you might consider buying a mini instead.

 

[redman135]

Hello murraya8922, if you go the owner route on a backhoe or excavtor, 1 way to inprove the stumping ability is to have a "pick/ripper) made for your machine. See "Dirt Ninja" mini ecavator with ripper. This will show you what I am talking about. You can save time by not having to dig dirt, and the single tooth greatly multiplies the diggging force.

 

[dougtrr2]

I think the only project that would be questionable is the pond. Quite some time back the question was raised about using a Kubota BX series for a pond. Someone did the math on the volume of the pond, the volume of a BX loader, travel times etc. When it was all said and done, it cleary made no sense whatsoever to attempt that size pond with a small piece of equipment.

That said, I think your "slow but steady" model on the other projects is definitely worth consideration. Yes, specialized equipment will get the job done faster and better, but that wasn't your question.

I have a backhoe on my BX. I don't use it a lot, but I have never had any regrets for buying it.

Doug in SW IA