ritcheyvs
Veteran Member
TPG: I think I understand this beast now (which is a bit scary) thanks to your help. Cheers.
Oil & Fuel Another dk stuck at full throttle.
- Thread starter countrybumpkin
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ritcheyvs
Veteran Member
Questions for thepumpguy:
FYI, the full repair saga is in another thread but I don't know if you are following that one so I'm trying to pick your brain here.
When I opened up the IP, the gear on the #4 control sleeve was missing four teeth. I only found one of the teeth in the IP so I assumed the rest were in the oil pan (maybe in fragments). I replaced all four control sleeves, which was quick and easy.
After I reinstalled the IP I decided to check it by cranking (with all hard lines removed) and I got a nice little shot of fuel from delivery valves #1, #2, and #3 but nothing from #4. Thinking I reversed the plunger or something, I removed the IP and checked plunger #4; it appeared correctly assembled.
I had not planned to remove any delivery valves but I didn't know what else to check. I removed the #4 delivery valve and found some dark-looking dirt on the top of the little poppet so I cleaned it up and put it all back together. I put the IP back on the engine and still no fuel spurt from #4 when I crank.
I did have a concern about the little copper washer (delivery valve gasket) because I couldn't figure how to keep it centered when I reinstalled the delivery valve. I ended up hand-tightening the delivery valve and then using a small dental pick (from the bottom) to try to get it centered (more or less) before torquing.
So is it possible I just have some kind of air lock that's keeping fuel from reaching #4? I don't think I screwed up the control sleeve because the other three seem fine. Is it likely the #4 plunger/cylinder or delivery valve was damaged by the failed gear tooth? Should I just send the whole thing off to a Diesel shop (I don't know of a local one)?
Anyway, I thought I'd ask your advice before doing anything else. Thanks.
Scott
FYI, the full repair saga is in another thread but I don't know if you are following that one so I'm trying to pick your brain here.
When I opened up the IP, the gear on the #4 control sleeve was missing four teeth. I only found one of the teeth in the IP so I assumed the rest were in the oil pan (maybe in fragments). I replaced all four control sleeves, which was quick and easy.
After I reinstalled the IP I decided to check it by cranking (with all hard lines removed) and I got a nice little shot of fuel from delivery valves #1, #2, and #3 but nothing from #4. Thinking I reversed the plunger or something, I removed the IP and checked plunger #4; it appeared correctly assembled.
I had not planned to remove any delivery valves but I didn't know what else to check. I removed the #4 delivery valve and found some dark-looking dirt on the top of the little poppet so I cleaned it up and put it all back together. I put the IP back on the engine and still no fuel spurt from #4 when I crank.
I did have a concern about the little copper washer (delivery valve gasket) because I couldn't figure how to keep it centered when I reinstalled the delivery valve. I ended up hand-tightening the delivery valve and then using a small dental pick (from the bottom) to try to get it centered (more or less) before torquing.
So is it possible I just have some kind of air lock that's keeping fuel from reaching #4? I don't think I screwed up the control sleeve because the other three seem fine. Is it likely the #4 plunger/cylinder or delivery valve was damaged by the failed gear tooth? Should I just send the whole thing off to a Diesel shop (I don't know of a local one)?
Anyway, I thought I'd ask your advice before doing anything else. Thanks.
Scott
Coyote machine
Super Member
- Joined
- May 4, 2009
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- 7,641
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- Southern VT
- Tractor
- 22 SANY SY 50U, '10 Kioti DK 40se/hst KL-401 FEL, loaded tires, KB-2485 bhoe, Tuffline TB160 BB, Woods QA forks, MIE Hydraulic bhoe thumb & ripper tooth, Igland 4001 winch, & GR-20 Log Grapple. Woods BBX72" Brush Mower. Diamondplate aluminum canopy
FWIW, Can you swap out #4 with a different cylinder/plunger to see if it changes delivery on the #4 line, before deciding to send the IP out for inspection/rebuild?
I know you're looking for thepumpguy to answer your question(s), but while you're waiting....
ritcheyvs
Veteran Member
CM: I may try that but it requires removing the delivery valve and I am unsure how to keep the DV gasket centered for reassembly. I'm hoping TPG knows a trick he'll share. There are a couple of other things I want to check, like the #4 cam and free movement of the #4 plunger. Thanks for the suggestion.
thepumpguysc
Elite Member
The gasket centers itself in the "nut".. if you wanna feel better about it, put the dv gasket IN THE HOLDER 1st.. then set it on top of the dv & screw it down.
Its not likely that the plunger got damaged from the teeth, but anything is possible..
It would have been very noticeable by its movement in the bore.. {wouldn't slide back in}..
The cut on the plunger, goes opposite the rack..
Its possible that #4 tappet assembly [roller] wont go up & down.?? Lock the pump in a vise & use a screwdriver on the tappet to compress it several times.. IF it was stuck, they get stuck UP.. & would have been noticeable when you pulled it out the 2nd time..
IF you wanna send it off, I'm available.. just send me a PM for details.
Its not likely that the plunger got damaged from the teeth, but anything is possible..
It would have been very noticeable by its movement in the bore.. {wouldn't slide back in}..
The cut on the plunger, goes opposite the rack..
Its possible that #4 tappet assembly [roller] wont go up & down.?? Lock the pump in a vise & use a screwdriver on the tappet to compress it several times.. IF it was stuck, they get stuck UP.. & would have been noticeable when you pulled it out the 2nd time..
IF you wanna send it off, I'm available.. just send me a PM for details.
Coyote machine
Super Member
- Joined
- May 4, 2009
- Messages
- 7,641
- Location
- Southern VT
- Tractor
- 22 SANY SY 50U, '10 Kioti DK 40se/hst KL-401 FEL, loaded tires, KB-2485 bhoe, Tuffline TB160 BB, Woods QA forks, MIE Hydraulic bhoe thumb & ripper tooth, Igland 4001 winch, & GR-20 Log Grapple. Woods BBX72" Brush Mower. Diamondplate aluminum canopy
Any progress so far on the #4 line? I was also thinking about the dark little dirt you found at the top of the #4 DV poppet. I wonder if that is an indication of what may have been getting through the IP and could have caused the malfunction that led to the teeth breaking?
Curious as to is it possible that you had/have some contaminated fuel, which got past the fuel filter(s) and consequently ended up downstream jamming up the pump. Those pumps need to be surgically clean to function properly, and enough dirt in the internal pump mechanism, (I'm guessing here), might be able to throw the entire pump function and timing out of whack...
Especially since #4 is the section where the teeth blew out, yes?:confused3:
Curious as to is it possible that you had/have some contaminated fuel, which got past the fuel filter(s) and consequently ended up downstream jamming up the pump. Those pumps need to be surgically clean to function properly, and enough dirt in the internal pump mechanism, (I'm guessing here), might be able to throw the entire pump function and timing out of whack...
Especially since #4 is the section where the teeth blew out, yes?:confused3:
ritcheyvs
Veteran Member
TPG countrybumpkin, and CM:
SUCCESS.
I had reassembled the #4 delivery valve wrong, but maybe it came from the factory that way. I had the gasket below the delivery valve seal (a machined cylinder that sits on top the pump cylinder) instead of above it. I figured this out by (in desperation) removing the #3 delivery valve (which always worked) and inspecting it. I saw #3 had that copper gasket between the valve holder and on top the deliver valve seal. So I reassembled the IP like #3, put it back on the engine, and soon had little shots of fuel from all four cylinders when I cranked the engine. Just so you know, I then put the rest of the tractor back together and the tractor runs fine now.
Now, I wonder if the #4 delivery valve was mis-assembled from the factory. I got no fuel from #4 while cranking even before I ever touched that delivery valve. I could swear that I reassembled the #4 DV exactly as it came apart (but senior moments are more common now). With 4 cylinders I could have missed weak power from one cylinder. I wish I took more photos along the way but I only had two very dirty hands.
Your suggestions helped enormously, but TPG's words about centering made no sense until I realized the gasket was in the wrong place (after examining the working #3 DV).
TBN is a great resource because of great folks like you guys.
SUCCESS.
I had reassembled the #4 delivery valve wrong, but maybe it came from the factory that way. I had the gasket below the delivery valve seal (a machined cylinder that sits on top the pump cylinder) instead of above it. I figured this out by (in desperation) removing the #3 delivery valve (which always worked) and inspecting it. I saw #3 had that copper gasket between the valve holder and on top the deliver valve seal. So I reassembled the IP like #3, put it back on the engine, and soon had little shots of fuel from all four cylinders when I cranked the engine. Just so you know, I then put the rest of the tractor back together and the tractor runs fine now.
Now, I wonder if the #4 delivery valve was mis-assembled from the factory. I got no fuel from #4 while cranking even before I ever touched that delivery valve. I could swear that I reassembled the #4 DV exactly as it came apart (but senior moments are more common now). With 4 cylinders I could have missed weak power from one cylinder. I wish I took more photos along the way but I only had two very dirty hands.
Your suggestions helped enormously, but TPG's words about centering made no sense until I realized the gasket was in the wrong place (after examining the working #3 DV).
TBN is a great resource because of great folks like you guys.
Last edited:
Coyote machine
Super Member
- Joined
- May 4, 2009
- Messages
- 7,641
- Location
- Southern VT
- Tractor
- 22 SANY SY 50U, '10 Kioti DK 40se/hst KL-401 FEL, loaded tires, KB-2485 bhoe, Tuffline TB160 BB, Woods QA forks, MIE Hydraulic bhoe thumb & ripper tooth, Igland 4001 winch, & GR-20 Log Grapple. Woods BBX72" Brush Mower. Diamondplate aluminum canopy
Great! You're more than welcome. :thumbsup:
I find often I get into things and can't see the forest for the trees right in front of me. Who knows if it was assembled wrong from the get go? I would say if it seems like you just got another cylinder in the engine then maybe?!:confused3:
Anyway, sometimes going back over things instead of just getting frantic about just wanting them to work - helps by taking a break.
A suggestion. I would immediately change your fuel filter to insure whatever might have passed it by or whatever might have allowed the dark dirt, (sludge), to reach into the pump's internals.
Here's hoping your restored IP lasts the useful life of your tractor!
You saw it because you paid attention to the details. Taking pics of disassembly, and reassembly can really be useful, especially for something like you encountered.
I find often I get into things and can't see the forest for the trees right in front of me. Who knows if it was assembled wrong from the get go? I would say if it seems like you just got another cylinder in the engine then maybe?!:confused3:
Anyway, sometimes going back over things instead of just getting frantic about just wanting them to work - helps by taking a break.
A suggestion. I would immediately change your fuel filter to insure whatever might have passed it by or whatever might have allowed the dark dirt, (sludge), to reach into the pump's internals.
Here's hoping your restored IP lasts the useful life of your tractor!
You saw it because you paid attention to the details. Taking pics of disassembly, and reassembly can really be useful, especially for something like you encountered.
thepumpguysc
Elite Member
Your welcome.. happy to help.. that's what we're all here for..
keep an eye on those filters..
change'm 2x a year weather you use it or not..
a couple of 20's a year will keep you outta trouble..[filters]
Happy tractoring.. TPG
keep an eye on those filters..
change'm 2x a year weather you use it or not..
a couple of 20's a year will keep you outta trouble..[filters]
Happy tractoring.. TPG