Another Firewood Processor

[Wild Bill the 2nd]

Again I wanted to thank KiotiKen for turning us onto the Cubic Firewood Nets, or firewood bags from bagsupplies.ca

We couldn't be happier for the price. Three of the four people involved with the processor are using them.


We have some varied methods but I just hanging the bags in the bag holder and clamping them in.


Then I lean into the holder and tie the drawstring on two sides of the bottom together (this prevents the bag, or really a sleeve, from blowing out the bottom). Next I throw some pieces in the four sides to keep the bag expanded while filling.

Next we fill, however, if you want a decent bag you can't just let it run on its own and tend to it once it's full. You probably need to check on it and rearrange the logs 2 or 3 times during the fill. Otherwise the pieces will not stack in tightly enough and you will have something that resembles a mushroom cap (bag) on a stem (pallet) when you open the bag holder.


After it is full we pull the clamps and tighten the top drawstring.


Open the bag holder up and there you have it, a face cord in an easily transported package. How could you not love it?

 

[Jim Timber]

Some kind of guided trajectory on your outlet chute is needed to get the bin/bag's to stack nicer. What I saw of your current setup places them in a downward orientation when your full bag shows a horizontal base. If you can get them to hit something and bump sideways in free-fall, that might be all it takes.

You'll probably still need to adjust the load as you go to tweak it, but that's something your helper can do while not getting the logs on the deck. Doesn't sound like you're running this beast solo anyway, so it's just one more task to keep up with.

 

[jonix]

Long time ago i saw a processor that have a splitter trough with a couple of big springs under..seems to work just fine..the springs absorve the impact of the logs, and mostly all drop in place..

My firewood processor is working fine now, but got lots of problems too..mostly broken steel, broken push plate, and the wedge..today i weld it for the fourth time..eucalyptus is hard ..upgraded to 50 Ton, and i am working with a 404 pitch, with good torque but poor chain speed..works fine..done 400 Tonnes or firewood since the machine start working, about 3 months ago..if there were no problems, with nice 30/40 cm diameter round wood, i can do 4 ton/hour..

 

[Wild Bill the 2nd]

Jim, I see what your saying but I have no idea how to even attempt to accomplish it. Split pieces of firewood run up the conveyor in all orientations. Sometimes up to 3 pieces drop in all together. Sometimes the pieces are spaced out and sometimes they are right back to back. I think there are way too many variables to know just how a piece is going to fall in order to correct it. But if I'm missing something or you have an idea throw it out there. It would be great if the bags stacked themselves a little less chaotically.

jonix, I think most of the issue with the drop into the splitter trough is that the wood will hinge at the back where it is being cut. Then the front comes down and hits the top point of the wedge. That hangs up and after the cut is done the back will drop down end first into the trough. Many processors out there (yours included, jonix) have a cylinder that meets the end of the log as it is advanced. Does that cylinder aid at all in keeping the log straight when it drops or is it used to sense the log and turn off the log advance when it reaches the cylinder?

I've been wondering how you ever made out with your processor, so thanks for posting!
I worked out some of our production numbers into metric tons.
We've run a total of 76 tons of wood. and at most we've been able to run 3.4 tons per hour into our firewood bags. It's nice to see how we're doing compared to others. I'm sure that you will get everything rebuilt and improved for next season.

 

[Jim Timber]

If you had some way to restrict them, like an arm or roller that only let one pass at a time? Then you could have some other mechanism to orient them as they pass individually down stream, and then eventually wind up in the bin.

Just thinking out loud here. I know splits have a mind of their own, and my sorting and containerizing experience has been mainly nice round precision machined parts. Not really apples to apples.

 

[ultrarunner]

Again I wanted to thank KiotiKen for turning us onto the Cubic Firewood Nets, or firewood bags from bagsupplies.ca

We couldn't be happier for the price. Three of the four people involved with the processor are using them.


We have some varied methods but I just hanging the bags in the bag holder and clamping them in.


Then I lean into the holder and tie the drawstring on two sides of the bottom together (this prevents the bag, or really a sleeve, from blowing out the bottom). Next I throw some pieces in the four sides to keep the bag expanded while filling.

Next we fill, however, if you want a decent bag you can't just let it run on its own and tend to it once it's full. You probably need to check on it and rearrange the logs 2 or 3 times during the fill. Otherwise the pieces will not stack in tightly enough and you will have something that resembles a mushroom cap (bag) on a stem (pallet) when you open the bag holder.


After it is full we pull the clamps and tighten the top drawstring.


Open the bag holder up and there you have it, a face cord in an easily transported package. How could you not love it?

Went to the link and could not find pricing...

Any idea of final cost to the lower 48 and in what qty?

 

[Wild Bill the 2nd]

They come in bales of 100.
Last time I ordered it was $380 Canadian for the bale and $109 Canadian to ship them to NY

In the end I paid $384 US after the exchange rate.

They will sell them in quantities less than 100 but the price is per bag. I forget what they told me.

 

[kiotiken]

They come in bales of 100.
Last time I ordered it was $380 Canadian for the bale and $109 Canadian to ship them to NY

In the end I paid $384 US after the exchange rate.

They will sell them in quantities less than 100 but the price is per bag. I forget what they told me.

You're welcome, I'm glad they're working out for you. When I bought bags last year, they were $3.50 each and shipping was $35, but I only bought 50 bags. I can see the price going up since they import the bags and our dollar has tanked with the price of oil. You're getting a %30 discount with the exchange rate right now, not a bad deal at all.

 

[jonix]

over this last years I tried out some diferent ways to put firewood inside something..now i´m working with improvised 2m3 round containers i made from steel wire mesh, on wood pallets..

- I already tried a system like the PACKfix from POSCH (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=packfix+from+posch), but with a square form instead a round one. Very cheap metod, as issues like the unpackage (the mesh grabs to firewood and it´s hard to separate them) and the mesh has to be ultraviolet protected, other wise you´re gonna have lots of them fall in the ground. And you have to "arrange" mannually the wood as the pack fills up, or you gonna have lots of "side holes" that will not help your Pack stay straight. The wood as it dry, "moves" itself, and if you don´t have a straight pack..some picks:

-I tryed something like this too:
think this can work with the PACKFIX metod, but instead a mesh net, you can add a mesh bag like yours, and as the firewood fills in, the PACKFIX form rises up.

...working with a conveyor I figure out that is better if there were nothing in the end of it..the firewood piles up always in the same spot..if you have someking of piecelike you do to work with two pallets at the same time, you have to put some kind of stopper, to absorve the speed and descend angle of the firewood into the bags. I quit using this, think work better only with the conveyor and the right speed of belt travel.

Anyway, from your pictures, i think you will never achieve what your looking for..i work with 30cm log lenght cuts (thinks yours is twice long), and even so, for round containers with 1,25 cm diameter (round is better- as no corners , i have to sometimes put my hand in there to arrange the wood..I tryed out with larger containers and figure out that larger is better..in your case, i think for the lenght cut you are working with, you will need bags with 2 or 3 meters wide

..my processor as someking of a shelf below the cut "zone" that receives the cutted log..then that shelf drops, and even so there are many logs that not drop in place..if you don´t have somekind of shelf, the only thing that can control the horyzontal angle of the log fall, is the speed of the cut in the last few log inches..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IHTqlLc1QA

 

[muddstopper]

Wildbill, been meaning to ask you, How is that .58cuin parker saw motor working out for you. In the videos, it seems to be cutting pretty good, just wondering how it does in the larger wood.

 

[Wild Bill the 2nd]

It cuts OK for what we're doing.
So on the 22HP engine We have a 1.35ci pump running at 3000 rpm yielding 17.4 GPM to the saw.
The relief on our motor valve was set to 1500 psi from the factory. That is where we left it for more than 25 full cord. It worked alright but the saw would stall at 1500 PSI and run over the relief.

I ended up tweaking the relief up to 1800 PSI. Anything higher and we would stall out the 22HP engine when the chain bogged down. So it obviously cuts better with the extra pressure but we can still stall out the saw if we go through stuff too fast.

Bigger stuff we need to cut slower, I wish we had a bit more video to show but being as how we got this thing running so late in the season we were all focused on getting our firewood done.

In the end we have not maxed out the saw motor, we are limited by the gasoline engine.

 

[muddstopper]

If I am figureing this right, you are putting 17.4gpm to a .58 cuin motor, so it should be turning at 6930rpms. I believe you said you had a 15tooth .404 sprocket. Those speeds should have your chain running at 116ftsec. Thats pretty fast chain speed. Should cut like a scalded dog if you had the power to pull it. You need to increase the torque, which would mean increasing the pressure. If gas motor wont pull it, not much you can do. You are also already overspeeding the motor and getting close to max pressure rating, I dont know much more power you will be able to get out of that motor before it breaks. I would think that increaseing speed by 38% would also mean a reduction in safe pressures by a similar amount. Meaning your motor turning at 6930 rpms is only good to around 1500psi. Not sure if the pressure and flow rates would be linear but there is a relationship to be considered.

flow and pressure relationship I found for one type of motor.

MAX TORQUE & SPEED AT:
4650 PSI
1272 in-lbs Torque
1400 RPM
12 GPM


3000 PSI
840 in-lbs Torque
2200 RPM
18 GPM


2000 PSI
552 in-lbs Torque
3500 RPM
29 GPM


This is the same problem I saw with some of the factory processors I demo'ed. In small wood, they cut pretty good, but once wood dia starts getting bigger, saws started bogging down. It is also the reason I chose to go with a little bigger motor, so I could get the torque at lower pressure. In my situation, engine hp isnt going to be my limiting factor. My motor also has a higher pressure rating so I can turn the pressure up to 3000psi If i need to. I think, and its just my opinion, that a lot of the manufacturers use too small a saw motor. I know using a bigger motor requires all kinds of additional cost. More hp, bigger pumps, the whole nine yards ,= more cost to produce and a higher selling point. I guess this is the reason I decided to just build instead of buy.

 

[Wild Bill the 2nd]

Your numbers are correct except we ended up needing to go with a 16 tooth sprocket.
17.4 GPM into a .58ci motor yields 6930 rpm
At this speed the motor should be producing 154 in/lb of torque
6930 rpm running a 16 tooth sprocket and .404" chain yields 124 ft/sec chain speed.

I knew I was running the motor over the rated RPM but forgot to think that the max pressure would be downrated. The gear motors are fairly inexpensive so we will see how long it lasts for us.

For our next motor I would probably change to a .7ci model. It would run at 5742 rpm and develop 200 in/lb of torque.
At 5742 rpm the chain speed would still be 103 ft/sec. Probably a better setup with the current engine limitations.

Sounds like you have one heck of a machine planned. I can't wait to see it built!

 

[jonix]

WildBill, think the problem is your torque..but you have some kick *** chain speed!!!

I say this because I am working with almost 300 lb in @3300PSI, and once in a while the chain stalls..mostly in knots and more compact wood..

I work with 150 lb/in for about a month, and have to change it..the saw as to have a slow descend to cut..

But it all depends on type of chain and type of wood of course..

What kind of chain are you using?

 

[muddstopper]

Wild bill, you know the recommended speed for the .404 chain is 133 ftsec so you are pretty close with your setup, just need more power. I would run it till it blows and then think about what motor you want to replace it with. Might run for years, might blowup next cut, never know. If your prepared for the consequences, I would turn the pressure up and go for it.

Jonix, this is the saw motor Wildbill listed in his thread that he is using. 0.58 cu in MGG20025-BA1B3 HYD MOTOR SIDE PORTS. As you can see, its much cheaper than your F11 saw motor. Not saying it is better or worse than your saw motor. It is what it is.

 

[jonix]

Yes, it is much cheaper..

But it is running over limit RPMs, and at 2000 PSI is not going to have the torque needed..

think you are right..big displacement motors to run the saw, High torque at low pressure..and you only need to give it some decent oil flow to do the math..

 

[muddstopper]

Yes, it is much cheaper..

But it is running over limit RPMs, and at 2000 PSI is not going to have the torque needed..

think you are right..big displacement motors to run the saw, High torque at low pressure..and you only need to give it some decent oil flow to do the math..

I think you and WildBill have a similar problem, not enough hp to make the machine efficient. Dont know that my machine will be any better, and I am trying to do things with my machine you dont normally see on hobbiest or even most professional machines. I dont have much hair now, by the time I get mine built, My head will look like a peeled onion.

 

[farm boy00]

I think you and WildBill have a similar problem, not enough hp to make the machine efficient. Dont know that my machine will be any better, and I am trying to do things with my machine you dont normally see on hobbiest or even most professional machines. I dont have much hair now, by the time I get mine built, My head will look like a peeled onion.

Just remember to rub moisturizer and antibiotic ointment on it morning and night

 

[muddstopper]

I can always buy the spray on hair, with todays hair styles, I should fit right in:shocked:

 

[Wild Bill the 2nd]

Looks like muddstopper answered most all of Jonix's questions while I was away.
All but the chain, we are running Oregon 18HX chain.

We're not going out of our way to replace the saw motor now. Like you say we will wait until we blow out the seals and then we will see which way we want to go. Unless we change our engine setup I imagine that we will trade some chain speed for a bit more torque. I did find a 49hp Isuzu diesel for $1500. That didn't sound too bad...