another hiccup to going solar?

[ultrarunner]

The be prepared part of my nature seeks to limit dependancies especially when it comes to security such as domestic food production and defense.

The only way to be independent is by being self sufficient and maybe that is as simple as getting out of the way and other times it may require a little forward thinking with a sprinkling of incentives to kick-start…not as a reward but instead with the goal of survival…

 

[orezok]

Ah, but we've had electric without wind or solar. We don't NEED them, some people WANT them, that's a big difference when we are talking about spending other people's money.

Yeah, but when the Chinese/Russians hack our power plants, wind and solar may be all that’s left.

When the grid goes down I’ll still have power.

 

[ddbackhoe]

Yeah, but when the Chinese/Russians hack our power plants, wind and solar may be all that’s left.

When the grid goes down I’ll still have power.

You sure about that? All of the grid tied systems I know of go offline when the grid is down

 

[ericm979]

There are some newer systems with solar + battery + inverter that can function with the grid down.

 

[ddbackhoe]

There are some newer systems with solar + battery + inverter that can function with the grid down.

Only the batteries will. They function as a backup generator until they lose their charge.

 

[ultrarunner]

A few invertors have a single outlet for critical loads... with enough sun the outlet is active even with grid down and no battery... I can power a refrigerator.

 

[ddbackhoe]

A few invertors have a single outlet for critical loads... with enough sun the outlet is active even with grid down and no battery... I can power a refrigerator.

during daylight……What about the other x.x Kw’s of panels you had installed?

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

A few invertors have a single outlet for critical loads... with enough sun the outlet is active even with grid down and no battery... I can power a refrigerator.

SMA Sunnyboy inverters come to mind. And a good product too!

 

[bnold]

You sure about that? All of the grid tied systems I know of go offline when the grid is down

There are ways to make this work, but most not approved for standard grid tied inverters.

Hybrid inverters with some battery storage are becoming more commonplace.

My grid tied inverter (non hybrid) has some real intelligence if I wanted to go all out.

My utility currently has very favorable back feed rates, so battery storage makes almost no sense currently. My energy storage is diesel.

My current utility outage backup is diesel standby generator, currently my transfer switch trips a micro switch that opens a derate circuit for my inverter, basically when switched to gen, the inverter is programmed to 100% derate (turn off). This is largely because my generator isn’t rated for backfeed.

(Some generators are, but the % is pretty low)

There is instrumentation available for my GT inverter that I could install to maintain a user selectable load on the generator (say 20%) and the inverter would provide whatever it could to my home system with solar but maintain that 20% on the gen. Couple of grand in electronics from Fronius to make that work.

If long outages were commonplace here, I’d consider it as a means to save fuel.

But longest outage has been about 4hrs in my lifetime, so not terribly concerned with investing more to make that a reality at this point. Only during the Tx freeze did we have multiple days of outages, but I was never out more than a few hours with the rolling outages.

 

[ning]

You sure about that? All of the grid tied systems I know of go offline when the grid is down

As others have said before and will again, there are microgrid systems which form a separate micro grid when the main grid is down.

Mine does this with battery and/or generator backup; the solar can continue to generate power as needed.

Now, you know otherwise.

 

[ddbackhoe]

As others have said before and will again, there are microgrid systems which form a separate micro grid when the main grid is down.

Mine does this with battery and/or generator backup; the solar can continue to generate power as needed.

Now, you know otherwise.

If the solar is generating power as needed why do you have battery/generator backup?

 

[Hay Dude]

If the solar is generating power as needed why do you have battery/generator backup?

Yep! It never gets dark or cloudy,,,,,,right?
Thing that really scares me is the manufacturer of the controllers & systems could imbed computer chips in them that could suddenly become unavailable, or even have ways of turning them off, just like in our cars & trucks.

But don’t worry about THAT.
It’s all good.

 

[bnold]

If the solar is generating power as needed why do you have battery/generator backup?

Cute.

Because the vast majority 99+% of solar adopters (the 1-% being true off grid systems) consider the solar system/production as ‘part’ of their energy solution. Most of us are very aware of where the balance of our power comes from: larger wind/solar installations, NG, coal, biomass, oil, hydro. The battery/generator backup is for the failure of the grid system. Not our own solar installation. In general, residential small scale solar installations are reducing load on the grid during peak times while in production. Despite MSM/Politicos spouting opinions, only a tiny fractional percentage of people actually think wind/solar is a viable option for ALL energy production.

 

[bnold]

Thing that really scares me is the manufacturer of the controllers & systems could imbed computer chips in them that could suddenly become unavailable, or even have ways of turning them off, just like in our cars & trucks.

But don’t worry about THAT.
It’s all good.

And that is different from any other power generation how? Modern power plants aren’t run like and 1850s saw mill… They are all computer controlled. All with foreign non-US components (from materials mined with “African Slave Child Labor”, I’m sure)

Who needs to worry about computer chips? 2 rifles against oil filled utility transformers has already been enough to cripple US grid in very recent history.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

It all boils down to spending money to save money which is nuts. That and man creates pollution doing things so doing other things will fix the original problem as people ride their private jets explaining how it's done.

 

[bnold]

It all boils down to spending money to save money which is nuts.

This is comical.

Is your house insulated?

Mine is. Cost money. Saves money.

 

[ultrarunner]

It all boils down to spending money to save money which is nuts. That and man creates pollution doing things so doing other things will fix the original problem as people ride their private jets explaining how it's done.

About once every 10 years I fly to visit family…

I must be an outlier because among friends and co workers flying several times during the year for pleasure is typical.

Thailand, Europe, New Zealand, Mexico and Central America and Philippines top the list…

Yet using 5 gallons of mix in my string trimmer/brush cutter every spring chopping weeds required for fire suppression is destroying the world…???

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

About once every 10 years I fly to visit family…

I must be an outlier because among friends and co workers flying several times during the year for pleasure is typical.

Thailand, Europe, New Zealand, Mexico and Central America and Philippines top the list…

Yet using 5 gallons of mix in my string trimmer/brush cutter every spring chopping weeds required for fire suppression is destroying the world…???

This is only because the "informed" have set a zero emissions goal!
The goal is control!!
Yet, the "informed" don't believe in zero emissions for themselves!!!

 

[ddbackhoe]

Cute.

Because the vast majority 99+% of solar adopters (the 1-% being true off grid systems) consider the solar system/production as ‘part’ of their energy solution. Most of us are very aware of where the balance of our power comes from: larger wind/solar installations, NG, coal, biomass, oil, hydro. The battery/generator backup is for the failure of the grid system. Not our own solar installation. In general, residential small scale solar installations are reducing load on the grid during peak times while in production. Despite MSM/Politicos spouting opinions, only a tiny fractional percentage of people actually think wind/solar is a viable option for ALL energy production.

There is nothing cute about it.
AGAIN, without violating NEC standards, what amount of power does a grid tied system generate when the grid goes down? just under 2 kw max? Which is only useable on a completely separate circuit (ie extension cord) or to feed a Tesla Powerwall, Enphase IQ, etc…(extra 10k ++) just enough to run one refrigerator and a couple of lights.
Im happy you and others think this is a magic pill.

This is merely another (government incentive) distraction. Why isn’t geothermal HVAC more subsidized, a large percentage of your energy use is allocated for your comfort (heat, ac, domestic hw)? Wave power, where’d it go? Remember when solar water heaters were the rage? Remember when propane/NG was the countries saving grace? Auto manufacturers pushed mass transit aside, now we want more mass transit. The list goes on and history will repeat itself, again.

 

[ericm979]

If the solar is generating power as needed why do you have battery/generator backup?

I'm starting to think you're being obtuse on purpose. I'm going to answer this one and see.

When the grid is down the batteries run the inverter which powers the house. The panels charge the batteries when they have sun. The generator is for when the panels are not enough, like for a days-long outage in winter with overcast.

My neighbors have a setup like this. It runs their whole house. When we had a couple week+ long outages this winter, they had to run a portable generator a couple hours a day to top up the batteries because the panels weren't enough between overcast and snow (which is rare here). It's a really slick system and totally to current code. It sure beats running a generator 24 hours a day or turning it off at night and not having power.

It costs more than the usual whole house generator run off a propane tank. But our neighbors who had those both ran out of propane during the outages this winter. Propane trucks can't deliver when the road is closed, which is not infrequent here. If you're in a place with a lot of outages and can afford it, solar + batteries + small generator is the way to go with the current state of technology.