Another news story about loose dogs

[Marlowe]

It doesn't take a Pit to attack. Almost any dog can attack under the right conditions. Not long ago I was alone out close to the road repairing a broken sapling. I was bent over and not looking when I heard a group of dogs start barking. I looked and saw that it was a Lab, a Beagle, and a Chihuahua roaming free in the road. All three of them were heading in my direction at a dead run. A good sized ditch separated me from them. The Lab jumped the ditch, but the Beagle and Chihuahua stopped at the ditch. The Lab was heading full bore in my direction until he noticed he was alone, and slowed down. I rose up to meet his charge and he decided to turn back joining his pack in the road. If the ditch hadn't stopped two of them I'm afraid I'd of had to fight off that Lab. It was pack mentality and I was their prey. This was a Lab, a Beagle, and a Chihuahua, and this was in my front yard. I have grandchildren who live with me and I intend for them to play in this yard without worrying about free ranging "pets". I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to kill these dogs.

 

[Sigarms]

Unfortunately for the pit bull and like breeds, when idiots get a dog, it is often a pit bull. How's that? Friendlier I hope.

Not hardly.

It is what I like to call a self fullfilling stereotype.

I think most dog problems are owner based.

I agree 100%.

 

[dave1949]

Not Hardly.
It is what I like to call a self fullfilling stereotype.

http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/images/dogbreeds-a.pdf

Page 2 of this link is a chart of fatal dog attacks by breed statistics from 1979 through 1998. It is broken down into two sections, purebred and crossbred. Any breed which accounted for more than 7 fatalities over that time period is included. There were 238 total fatalities. Of those, purebred pit bull-type and crossbred pitbull-type breeds accounted for 76 deaths. Next were rottweilers (pure+cross) with 44 deaths and third were german shepards (pure+cross) with 27 deaths.

With these statistics, it is clear the breed of dog plays a role.

There are three possiblities I can think of:
1)Pit bulls are more apt to be owned by idiots than any other breed - which is pretty close to what I said to begin with.
or
2)Pit bulls are inherently more dangerous to people.
or
3)A combination of the above.

I am guessing you think it is the first possiblity? If so, what is 'not hardly' friendly about that? I am not saying anyone who owns a pit bull is an idiot.

My personal guess is possibility number three, which I freely admit is a gut feeling. Maybe you see other possibilities. I did read that some believe pit bulls are 'over-identified' in dog attack reports. Once a breed gets a bad rap, that is certainly a logical possiblility.

I think we can agree that a responsible owner is the most important factor. We will never have a statistic for fatalities by breed and owner capability I guess.

Dave.

 

[Sigarms]

Dave

IMO the only issue I see with #2 is the overall breeds "natural" instinct with humans. Read up on the breed and it's natural tendancies. From my own personal experiences, they are actually a very loving dog.

Honestly, I was very leary of any bully breed up until my 40's until one accidently came into my care.

Sad fact is that "professional dog fighters" would NEVER put up with an animal in their care that would show any aggression towards a human and they rarely do ("professional fighting dogs").

I had to help care for some fighting dogs that were being held by the court system for evidence that had to be put down (which they were). Those dogs by themselves were absolutely fine confined with humans, but have another dog in their space and I would even become afraid.

Please keep in mind, I have no qualms with putting a dog down due to aggression towards humans (although I can't help but wonder about what type of home enviroment and training the dog received).

As far as statistics on dog bites, I can't help but wonder of the amount of bully breeds now in care. Seems to some extent to be the "cool breed" to own to show toughness of some sort, which I fail to understand myself.

Please keep in mind, it is also statistics that anti gun people use to argue that people should not own guns.

I also can't help but notice that while working at times in an urban enviroment that it seems that most single men while walking in said urban enviroment can usually be seen walking with a bully breed (usually not spayed or neutered). I can't help but wonder why?

Funny, I never owned a dog when I was single because I didn't have the time to properly raise one.

I did read that some believe pit bulls are 'over-identified' in dog attack reports

The issue as I see it is that a dog is classified as a pit bull if it shows any physical characteristics of a "bully breed" which is usually some sort of terrier group. Ironcially, the general classification same can be said for firearms when an incident is reported in the news pertaining to a firearm.

By the same token, I know of people who would wish to outlaw firearms because their loved ones were killed by a firearm.

Do I think the breed plays a role? To some small extent, yes. However, it is far easier for anyone to get a "pit bull" than a firearm. I shiver when I read in my thrifty nickel "pure bred pit bull pups" for sale, $300". Do you think that most reputable breeders advertise in the thrifty nickel? Do you think any of these local breeders actually care whose home these animals go to as long as they are paid?

I sincerely see why some could disagree with me, however, my opinion has been formed only due to my personal experiences with working with the "breed" which I realize has been limited.

 

[wjoerob]

A friend who is a police officer came to our place to shoot coyotes, since we had lost several sheep. He and a friend stayed out in the pasture all night. He told us later that they had seen some glowing eyes in the brush by the creek near the pasture. They didn't shoot them, he said, because they thought they might be neighbor's dogs instead. I told him, if they are out there at 3 A.M., shoot them anyway! This has happened several times, we've had several neighbor's dogs as well as coyotes running around. More than once the dogs have been in groups, or packs. One, a Malamute, killed 30 or so of my wife's chickens. I'm glad we don't have small children of our own out and about. I don't care what breed of dog, or its price or purpose, I have hesitated once too often, and would kill one if needed. And we raise purebred Shelties ourselves, which are penned or in the house.

 

[Bird]

Unfortunately, we have our share of idiot dog owners in our neighborhood. My wife's afraid to walk our chihuahua in the neighborhood because some of the bigger dogs get loose now and then. Our little dog does love to go out for a walk, so I take her, but my "walking cane" is a Bubba Stik and I figure it'll take a really bad dog to challenge me with that. If one is that bad, I wouldn't hesitate to use the .38 I have in my pocket.

Last November 29, my wife and I had just come home and gotten out of the pickup when we saw a lady walking a small German Shepherd on a leash going past our house, but a pair of pit bull type dogs (one appeared to actually be a pit bull and the other was definitely a crossbreed) were loose. We'd never seen either of those dogs before and have no idea where they came from. But those two attacked that lady's dog. There was quite a flurry of activity and noise, with dogs growling and yelping, that lady screaming, my wife screaming at me to do something, etc. Anyway the Shepherd got loose and ran south down the street with the other two dogs chasing it and the Shepherd's owner running after them.

It was a Sunday afternoon, with children out playing in the yards and streets, so I chased after the dogs in my pickup. The Shepherd made it home and the other two abandoned the chase just short of the Shepherd's home. I called the police on my cell phone, then kept track of the two loose dogs, in case they attacked anyone, until officers arrived.

Oddly enough, those two dogs wandered about half a mile, down streets, through yards, and down a drainage ditch through a wooded area, and eventually went behind the police station where they were penned up. Fortunately, they were not aggressive toward humans.

 

[20 20]

http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/images/dogbreeds-a.pdf


1)Pit bulls are more apt to be owned by idiots than any other breed - which is pretty close to what I said to begin with.

This tells the truth and speaks in volumes

Number 2-3 go together, no where near truth, they are no more dangerous then any other dog.

My personal guess is possibility number three, which I freely admit is a gut feeling.

You and many others feel this way IMO opinion that is sad. An animal gets a bad rap because of Jack butt humans. Just think who would you want in your forest as a neighbor, a black bear or a bunch of idiot humans? Idiots can ruin anything, I'll hang with the bear any day
An animal is just that nothing more or less society makes the killer!!!

I think we can agree that a responsible owner is the most important factor. We will never have a statistic for fatalities by breed and owner capability I guess.

Dave.

Agreed caretakers are the true blame, but that's to hard for most to admit. It's much easier to point a finger at a breed of dog then a human. After all that human idiot looks just like the rest of us

 

[20 20]

Bird; As a young kid I watch a lab and a mutt{collie mix} rip a mini doberman in half. It is not a pleasent site nor sound at all.

 

[dave1949]

Good Morning SigArms,

Your analogy to firearms is a good one. It's a good warning to dog lovers too. We don't want public perception regarding dogs to be based on bad dog owners. I am afraid that could be the end result as people continue to get maimed or killed by dogs of any breed.

100% on the source of puppies. No responsible dog breeder would ever sell their pups to whoever responds to an ad, or in a pet store. It's the 'Walmart Effect' of the pet world. I was really glad to see Gov. Rendell of PA get behind the crackdown on puppy mills. When animal shelters rarely have dogs in residence, it would indicate to me that the general public has finally reached a more educated level of pet ownership.

As to the single guys who want to stroll down the street with a macho dog, well, I think they will get more chicks with a Golden or Beagle But it highlights the issue, to them the dog is a fashion or image accessory, like choosing a hat. Very superficial and not much to do with loving dogs perhaps. A generalization, certainly.

Like the gun issue, it all comes down to education. We have a somewhat warped dog ownership 'model' perhaps. I think it is improving though. I would like to believe my own idea of dog ownership has improved over the years.

My pet awakening began in 1973. I was in a fairly elegant hotel dining room in Switzerland. About halfway through our meal, we noticed a huge German Shepard laying under a nearby table of diners. Without looking, you would never know that dog was there. As we traveled around, we noticed that was not unusual. I began to think, oh, this is what owning a dog can be like. Sort of a light bulb moment.
Dave.

 

[charlz]

So for those of you who say you wouldn't hesitate to shoot... what are your local laws about animal cruelty? Here in Idaho you can legally shoot a dog harassing livestock or fowl used for 'commercial' purposes (anyone selling chickens, ducks, their eggs etc.)

If a dog is on your property barking and growling at you or your family and you shoot it you are liable to be charged with animal cruelty (assuming anyone finds out).