Another Permatran question.

[liberty2701]

I am getting ready for my 50 hr service and I know there is alot of talk out there about which fluid to use in GC2610 trans. The dealer I purchased from uses kubota UDT in all there Masseys. It seems to work fine. I am looking for input from others out their that used other than Permatran III . I am looking to use Shell Spirax fluid which is a 10w30 like the permatran and according to Shell it exceeds the permatran specs. TSC also has Mystic JT5 which reads to be pretty good. Thanks

 

[ray66v]

This question has come up many times, and it still is the same situation. Since all the name brand stuff seems to be about the same price, unless your going to go with some really cheap stuff, I saw a bucket for $25 at Rural King once, how much money are you talking about saving here?

Or, do you have another motivation for not using the Permatran, or even the stuff from the orange guys?

 

[liberty2701]

Amsoil is $180 for 5 gallons. The shell product is $65 for 5 gallons. I know shell rotella are good products. Just wondering if anyone has actually used it. The money saving in the big picture is small. If Amsoil is definately worth the extra 120 I would use it. If my machine would never know the difference I would usethe Shell product. I am not a fan of overpaying a dealer for a product because of false claims. Like I said Massey says to use only Permatran and the dealeer I dealt with uses kubota UDT. An example of what I am talking about.

 

[ray66v]

Amsoil is $180 for 5 gallons. The shell product is $65 for 5 gallons. I know shell rotella are good products. Just wondering if anyone has actually used it. The money saving in the big picture is small. If Amsoil is definately worth the extra 120 I would use it. If my machine would never know the difference I would usethe Shell product. I am not a fan of overpaying a dealer for a product because of false claims. Like I said Massey says to use only Permatran and the dealeer I dealt with uses kubota UDT. An example of what I am talking about.

Amsoil is a whole different ballgame. When you could get it for $100 it was almost a no brainer, because it lasted at least twice as long as the others. Now that it is pushing $200 I would only suggest it, if you really need the potential cold weather benefit, or just don't want to stop every 200 hrs to change the oil. Other benefits are mostly imagined, that is backed up by the fact that they are not claimed by Amsoil. The Amsoil is a luxury you can probably live without if you want to save money.

My book from MF, does NOT say ONLY use Permatran. Most of US here do, because, we know you won't have any trouble if you do.

I have put the Permatran I drained out of my GC, into my fairway mower, and it ran noticeably cooler than it did with the Mobil product they specified, which was no longer made.

I have heard of dealers using the orange fluid before, and the Shell stuff will probably be fine too.

 

[donhartman]

Hello
Im not sure of the cost of the orange oil. But I did get a price of 78 dollars on 5 gallons of the agco's replacement for permatran III . In my case I am replacing hydraulic oil in a 231 I just bought . The oil that is specify in the manual is the permatran III oil. I did price a premium hydraulic oil from TSC that is 10-20 wt and meets the permatran spec at half the cost per five gallons.

Not wanting to hijack this post. I am just as curious if I should spring for the real stuff. I am not trying to be cheap but im also not a fan of throwing money away needlessly.

Thanks
Don

 

[ray66v]

They usually specify Permatran -OR- SAE 80 GL4.

SAE 80 GL4 is the universal name for hydraulic transmission oil.

People sometimes read this and only see the word Permatran.

 

[ray66v]

I am currently running the Amsoil, but I will go back to Permatran, if the price is still this high when the time comes.

I do have one Amsoil dealer that will usually work with me on price, when I waive money at him.

 

[liberty2701]

My manual says this only" recommended lubricant Permatran III" Nothing else

 

[donhartman]

The only thing listed in my manual is permatran III as well. No viscousity or grade is listed.

Don

 

[ray66v]

That's just wrong for them to do that kind of crap.

It should be illegal for them to insist on proprietary fluids. Actually, I thought it was illegal.

 

[MF RED in MT]

I am getting ready for my 50 hr service and I know there is alot of talk out there about which fluid to use in GC2610 trans. The dealer I purchased from uses kubota UDT in all there Masseys. It seems to work fine. I am looking for input from others out their that used other than Permatran III . I am looking to use Shell Spirax fluid which is a 10w30 like the permatran and according to Shell it exceeds the permatran specs. TSC also has Mystic JT5 which reads to be pretty good. Thanks

With the $$$$$ I have invested in my GC2410, and also the bitter cold and extended long winters we have, I decided to go with the Amsoil for all of my tractor fluids, :thumbsup:. I can promise you my tractor is not turning a shade of orange, :laughing:. My hyd/trans fluid was $9.85 per quart, and 12 quarts were $118.20. Thats $59.10 per oil change as I can now double the time between oil changes from 250 hours to 500 hours, . I do not think that cost is high considering the quality of fluid provided by Amsoil, :2cents:. KC

 

[liberty2701]

You say you can double your change intervals. Is that based on a UOA or on Amsoil recommendations. If it can go twice as long it is a no brainer. Did you notice that the trans operates any better with the Amsoil? How much did that Sims cab cost you?

 

[ray66v]

Amsoil advertises ATH will last 2 to 5 times longer than other fluids. But, that is with routine oil analysis.

If you double the interval and go 400 hrs., (and that's as far as I am going, because that's a lot of years for me), it's still more expensive that Permatran.

You could probably double the interval with Permatran too, if you did an oil analysis.

Here is what you gain with Amsoil, your cold weather viscosity goes from a pour point of -30F with Permatran, to -51F with Amsoil.

There is also an increase in the high temperature range.

If your not operating in extreme weather, these benefits are not realized. Then, it just costs you more.

 

[liberty2701]

I guess what you are saying is that it only benefits in the two temp extremes. My winters average on a nightly low of 15 to20f and day time of 30 to 40f. Summers maybe 90 to 95 tops. I am in southern nys so weather is not to extreme. Maybe I will stick with Permatran. I called a diff dealer than were I purchased from and he gave me a price of $80 for 5 gals.

 

[MF RED in MT]

You say you can double your change intervals. Is that based on a UOA or on Amsoil recommendations. If it can go twice as long it is a no brainer. Did you notice that the trans operates any better with the Amsoil? How much did that Sims cab cost you?

I do not know what UOA is, . Here is a link to the Amsoil I use for the trans/hyd.

AMSOIL - Synthetic Tractor Hydraulic/Transmission Oil (ATH)

Amsoil states the extended oil drain intervals should have an oil analysis company test your oil, I plan on having my oil checked at the next standard MF transmission oil and filter change which is every 250 hours after the 50 hour service is performed, :thumbsup:. I plan on changing the trans/hyd filter at 300 hours. I also plan on changing the trans/hyd fluid also at 300 hours, and saving the Amsoil fluid to reinstall at the 550 hours trans/hyd oil and filter change only after the oil analysis company says it is ok to continue to use, :thumbsup:. I will rotate the Amsoil until it needs to be removed for good. My real concern is the filter with the extended oil changes, so I plan on changing them out every 250 hours, or until someone comes out with an extended filter, :confused2:. Hope I made some sense here. Oh ya, the Simms cab and heater installed was $3995 and is cost effective every winter I do not get sick with pneumonia, .
B.T.W. if I ever would start having problems with the trans/hyd, I would have it tested sooner. I have noticed the hydraulics work faster after switching fluids when it gets down to minus 30 degrees F. I usually let the tractor warm up for about 45 minutes when it gets that cold. KC

 

[liberty2701]

Do you use the same Amsoil in the front axle or do you use something else? Do you think you realize a 20 to 50 degree cooler operating temps that is claimed?

 

[ray66v]

Do you use the same Amsoil in the front axle or do you use something else? Do you think you realize a 20 to 50 degree cooler operating temps that is claimed?

You should send some time reading past threads, all these things, and probably your next 5 questions have been well covered. Use the search feature.

You can use hydraulic oil in the front axle, but it is better to use gear lube. Any 80-90w EP gear lube will work. Buy synthetic gear lube if you want the low temp performance.

Synthetic EP gear lube is overkill in this application. But so what, it's not that expensive.

 

[Wacky]

Look, for what it is worth, I used permatran in the front axle because the dealer didn't top off my tranny or axle. So, I had a gallon left over after what I used to fill it to spec. The dealer gave me the permatran. I may switch to gear lube later, maybe, I may use the Amsoil hydro in the front axle. People say the seals leak with the thinner oil, I have not experienced that yet.
I used Amsoil for everything else. I will use Amsoil again due to the fact I am not a fan of mixing different brands after initial oil changes in anything I own. People do, of course, but I have not had any problems "oil related" yet. For the small amount I use (except tranny) quality is peace of mind to me. I work my little machine hard so I will spend the extra money for exceptional lubricants. I think the permatran may be just fine...the Amsoil may be overpriced, go with what gives YOU peace of mind.
Enjoy your investment and stay safe,
Merry Christmas!!:thumbsup:

 

[liberty2701]

No need for 5 more questions. My dilemma is solved!! Amsoil it is. Thanks for everything.

 

[MF RED in MT]

Do you use the same Amsoil in the front axle or do you use something else? Do you think you realize a 20 to 50 degree cooler operating temps that is claimed?

For the front axle, I use Amsoil Synthetic Gear Lube SAE 80W-90 (AGL). My tractor has never operated hot even before my 50 hour service change out to Amsoil, during the summer this year we never hit 90 degrees F at my property. For me its the extreme and long cold winter weather why I have switched to Amsoil. Here is a link to a thread I started about what fluids I decided to use in my GC2410:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/oil-fuel-lubricants/164165-gc2410-50-hr-service-synthetic.html

Good luck with your fluid decisions, :thumbsup:. KC