Another Trailer question

Iplayfarmer · Jul 13, 2005

I have a small Iseki TX1500 with a FEL and tiller. The tractor specs say it weighs about 1200 pounds. I would guess that with the FEL and tiller it weighs in a little over 1800 lbs. I've been hauing it in the back of my 1/2 ton pickup. Needless to say it's not my favorite experience loading and unloading the tractor from the back of a pickup truck.

In fact... on Saturday I was unloading and one of the ramps slipped when I was about halfway down. There I was dangling a rear wheel in mid air, praying that the front wheel would hold. The airborne wheel was spinning freely. I stepped on the differential lock and backed until the two rear wheels were on firm ground. Then the front wheel slipped off the ramp. The short version of the rest of the story is that the whole tractor was quickly on the ground and there's not much left of the ramps. The truck is O.K.... not even a scratch.

I got a trailer last night to haul my tractor. The question I have is "How much work am I going to have to do on it?" It's a home-made job I bought off a guy down south of here. The frame is strong, and there are cross members running widthwise every two feet along the whole length of the trailer. The axle is a mobile home axle, so it's pretty hefty. My only concern is the decking. There are two layers of plywood. The bottom layer is 1/2" and the top is 3/4". The wood is old, but it doesn't look like there's any dry rot or anything.

Unlike most of you, I'm not a welder, but I'm pretty good with wood. I had originally thought about ripping off the old plywood and beefing up the deck with some 4X4 "joists" between the cross members along where the wheels will be. Then I'd re-do the deck with 2x12 planks (or just put back the old plywood).

Do you think I need to spend the time and effort to re-build this decking, or do you think that the 1 1/4" of plywood will hold? Does anyone have better ideas for re-building the decking if that's the route I go? I do know a few good welders around, but then I'm paying for time instead of wasting it myself.

BigAl · Jul 14, 2005

Most of the wood decked trailers I had seen were 2x8 or 2x10 doug fir decking . I don't think you want to trust the plywood as you are talking two layers that equal 1 1/4 inches ,not one piece that is 1 1/4 thick . You really have no idea why the second layer was put on . I would just redeck the whole thing and know i had a good solid floor .
Allen

AntrimMan · Jul 14, 2005

You really only need solid decking where the tires will travel as long as you don't wander or slip all over the place. Maybe just run some 2by's where really needed. Man am I cheap this morning or what? Keep it safe whatever you decide.
All the best,
Martin

Iplayfarmer · Jul 14, 2005

If I just replace the whole deck with 2X8 will I still need to reinforce underneath where the wheels will travel?

P.S. I found the picture of the tractor in the back of the truck.

BigEddy · Jul 14, 2005

If you have cross members every 2 feet, I'd think 2x's would be fine without further reinforcement. My trailer is decked with 2x12's and I drive my 4000lb TLB onto it all the time. My supports are about every 2 feet as well and there is nothing special under the wheels.

For a quick fix as suggested, you could just go buy 4 @ 2x10's and put 2 on each side under the wheel tracks on top of the plywood and you would likely be strong enough as long as you can fasten them through to the frame.

Iplayfarmer · Jul 14, 2005

Thanks, BigEddy! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

That's why I like this forum... Real people with real experience who can tell me what has worked and what hasn't.

Thanks to BigAl and AntrimMan too. Big Help! Really!

Maybe I'll get some before and after shots and post them to this thread when I'm done with the trailer.

AntrimMan · Jul 14, 2005

I am doing some digging over in CT and I have hit a few big stones but believe me, I looked at your picture twice now and your stones are the biggest. Using every bit of the bed, and those ramps. Yup, your's are way bigger than mine.
That's a nice looking truck and a pretty nice tractor too.
A trailer is a good idea, your are doing the right thing.
I'm still smiling as wide as can be.
All the best,
Martin

Highbeam · Jul 15, 2005

So 1800 lbs in the bed of a 1/2 ton 4x4 truck. My 1/2 ton 4x4 truck, just like yours but with a canopy, weighs 5800 lbs empty and with a 6200 lb GVWR I only have 400 lbs of cargo.

Hmmmmm, 1800 lbs in the bed of a half ton. Them's some stones. Actually driving into the bed on motorcycle ramps would be the scariest part. Then you have to do it with the FEL way up in the air so that it doesn't blow the back window out.

Trailer, yes trailer. Good idea.

Iplayfarmer · Jul 15, 2005

I will admit there is a fine line between brave and stupid. As evidenced by my decision to buy a trailer, I realize I had crossed it.

In my defense however, the whole system worked out a lot better on paper. I've got access to a truck scale at work, and my truck weighs in at only 5300 lbs. empty. The rear axle is only carrying 1800 lbs. empty and it's rated at somewhere north of 3,700 lbs. The GVWR as stated on the door is 6,400 lbs. I knew I'd be overloading a little, but not severely. When I bought the truck I got heavier tires because I knew I'd overload occasionally.

The ramps were rated at 2,000 lbs. for the pair (written on the label on the ramps). I bought them a while back for loading my motorcycle and a riding lawn mower. I figured since I had them and they were rated for the weight, I'd make due with what I had.

I also rigged a beam into the frame of the FEL to keep it up without relying on the hydraulics (the beam was added after the picture was taken).

Loading went fine. I loaded it three times. Once a few weeks back just to make sure it would work, once before I went to my grandpa's house and reduced his patch of six foot weeds to a respectible looking patch of dirt, and then after I was done at grandpa's.

Unloading got worse each time, though. The final adventure happened as I unloaded the tractor at my Dad's house so he could use it to clean out his corral. In the process of slipping off the ramps they both bent into almost a 120 degree arc. I don't know if slipping caused the ramps to bend or bending caused them to slip.

The truck drove fine with the tractor in it. I was actually pretty impressed at how well it handled. You see the pattern here? I'm a little over spec for the truck and it did fine, I'm a little under spec on the ramps and they let me down hard.(literally)

The tractor has been at Dad's ever since, and it will stay there until I can get the trailer modified to where it works more than just on paper.

This is why I'm glad I found this forum. I can rely on real world experience and not just specs on paper.

Highbeam · Jul 18, 2005

I overload my truck the same way. I regularly exceed the GVWR but not the axle ratings or combined rating. I also use Load range C tires, which are rated much higher than the P tires and flex less.

It is valuable to learn from other people's lessons.

Iplayfarmer · Jul 18, 2005

Here's some more real world experience. I should have asked about this in the forum before I went shopping.

I'm using 3/8" carriage bolts through the wood deck of the trailer to secure the deck to the frame, and I don't have a good 3/8" drill bit. I decided to splurge and get a good bit since I knew I'd need to drill a bunch of holes. I asked the guy at the hardware store where I bought the bolts what would be the best bit for drilling through the steel frame of the trailer.

I got suckered into buying a cobalt drill bit for $17.00. I drilled three holes in the frame with it and then it stopped cutting. I took it back to the store and there was a different guy there. I told him what happened and asked again if this really was the best bit for what I was doing. He confirmed that the cobalt would do the trick. he let me exchange the bad bit for another new one and then told me not to push so hard on the drill.

The second bit was twice as good. It drilled about six holes and then stopped cutting. I didn't want to keep driving back and forth to the store all day (7 miles one way) so I sharpened the bit on my grinder and drilled another few holes. After three hours I had drilled 12 holes. (15 minutes per hole.)

I'll need about 80 holes before I'm done. I realize that at this rate I would be done with the trailer deck about Thanksgiving. I gave up and took the trailer to a friend who has a machine shop. He estimated about 30 minutes to get the whole thing done.

I told him my story about the drill bit and he confirmed two things...

1) Cobalt bits are no good for this application
2) I'm a sucker.

He pays about $5.00 per bit for his bits that drill through the frame in 11 seconds.

Bird · Jul 18, 2005

( weighs 5800 lbs empty and with a 6200 lb GVWR I only have 400 lbs of cargo. )

I'll take your word for it, but something's sure peculiar there. I never heard of a "half-ton" pickup that wouldn't handle over 1,000 pounds of cargo; usually rated for more like 1,500 pounds. I recently found that 600 pounds of ice in the back of my little Ford Ranger was hardly enough to tell I have anything in the bed, but I could definitely tell that I was overloaded when I hauled 1,368 pounds of concrete stepping stones plus the pallet they were on.

Highbeam · Jul 18, 2005

Well my 5800 lb pickup has the following non-GM options:

Sprayed in bedliner, frame mount step bars, leer fiberglass low canopy.

GM options are 4x4, 350, auto, 26 gallon fuel tank, extended cab, AC, tow package.

The truck is a very comfortable driver. The weight includes full fuel, my wife, and my weight. I've weighed several different times at different scales and they are all about the same. I pull an RV so I wanted to know real weights.

I really did look for lead bars in the frame since I've seen it done on pickups for more rear end weight. Nothing abnormal, just light duty half ton running gear.

The term "half ton" has no meaning like it did in previous decades. You now have half ton HD pickups with ratings more along the lines of the old 3/4 ton models. All it means is that the half ton is the lightest duty full size truck in that lineup.

RedRocker · Jul 18, 2005

How fast are you turning that bit? Sounds like your burning it up with too many RPM's.

Iplayfarmer · Jul 18, 2005

Sounds like your burning it up with too many RPM's. 

I thought about that after I burned up the first bit. I took it easy on the second bit, but it didn't really seem to help. The drill I was using is just a Harbor Freight tools cheapy. It's only a 2 amp drill. It's my "outside" drill.

What's the right RPM for this type of application anyway?

Also, what kind of bits really are the best for drilling through a steel trailer frame?

AlanB · Jul 18, 2005

Slow is the right RPM, the slower the better, there is no way you should have those problems out of a cobalt bit.

I do not want to come across wrong, but are you drilling in clockwise or standard drive? Any way your drill got reversed and you did not catch it?

Iplayfarmer · Jul 18, 2005

are you drilling in clockwise or standard drive? 

Good Question...I asked myself the same question many times throughout the process. It just didn't seem like I should be having that much trouble with a new bit. I was turning the bit the right direction the whole time...Clockwise when looking down at the hole from the top. (Counter clockwise if I'm looking down the bit from the tip.)

I fully believe that the problem was a result of something I was doing wrong. I'm just not sure what.

How much difference would the drill have made? Maybe I need to invest in a better "outside" drill. I've got a fairly good hobby wood shop and I try to keep my better tools in there.

keeney · Jul 18, 2005

Like most mechanical problems, these two suggestions should help:

1. more force

2. more lubrication.

1/2 joke, 1/2 true.

You need to be pushing hard enough on the bit for it to grab and cut, not just skid and spin on the metal. Also, some cutting oil will help keep it cool and help the chips clear out.

Another trick is to drill a small pilot hole first. Say 3/16ths. Do this with a higher RPM. Then re-drill the holes with the 3/8ths. The problem with any large drill bit is that the part in the middle doesn;t spin fast enough to cut while the outside edge goes too fast and just heats up. Putting a pilot hole in first will help you have enough force on the outer edges to cut well.

What I did on my trailer was to use some self-drilling, self-tapping screws through the wood decking. A couple of advantages: You don't have to line up holes in the wood and the frame - just go right through the wood from above, and you get a new "drill bit" on every hole.

boomer4snow · Jul 19, 2005

I dont think cobalt is even recommended to use in hand drills, Every one I have seen says to be used in stationary only setups (drillpress, mill etc) it is very strong and allows fater speeds while staying sharp, but it is really quite brittle and will snap quick with a side load. Good quality AMERICAN made high speed steel is your best bet. Hansons are pretty nice, Norseman, Champion etc...all much better than anything imported.

MadReferee · Jul 19, 2005

( Good quality AMERICAN made high speed steel is your best bet. )

Not always, and just because it is American doesn't always make it better. More expensive, probably, but better, not always. We make crap here too.

I have several Silver & Deming bits in the 1/2" to 1.5" range that are made in Poland. These are extremely high quality bits and still work fine to this day after being abused over and over again.

When looking for good drill bits one has to know what to look for and where to buy. Ask any machinist where he gets bits and what he uses. Then go buy some for yourself.