Any dog breeders amongst us?

FL_Cracker · Nov 26, 2004

Second Picture of Skipper, Sorry it's a little off subject! Just trying to sau they are a great breed.

Boondox · Nov 26, 2004

( "I admit that personally, I think there are too many pure-bred Goldens killed every year to even consider setting up another breeding program. There are more Goldens than homes for them already. "
We had the opposite experience. After our Golden passed, we searched for an adult Golden or even a pup from a rescue or any other place looking to give an unwanted Golden a great home and life. NO luck at all. The "rescues" were arrogant, rude, or uncommunicative. The pounds don't care whether a dog finds a home. The Wardens don't care. It was a disheartening experience. )

Brad -- Funny you mention that! There is a big golden rescue out of Boston, very well known, that refused to let us adopt one of their dogs because we had no fenced yard. We live at the end of a narrow dirt road on 155 acres of canine paradise, were experienced with the breed, I have a doc in behavioral science and both my wife and I roll on the ground with our dogs on a daily basis. But we had no fenced yard so were considered "undesirable."

That's why we got into golden rescue in the first place. We've since placed over 100 goldens in homes that were right for them. And while being in it for the dogs is what rescue is all about, some rescue folks have a hard time remembering that people deserve courteous treatment as well. If you follow the link in my signature, and click the golden rescue link, you'll find a FAQ section full of tips for dealing with sometimes aloof and sometimes arrogant rescue types.

By the way, regarding your quest for an older dog...we currently have a completely lovable big oaf of a golden named Harley. 100# of pure affection. Biggest paws and jowls you've ever seen! Nine years old and very people-focused, which is part of the problem. We have a core pack that he doesn't interact with at all. He could care less about other dogs or cats; he wants a human all to himself. The other problem is he strained both ACLs in the rear legs, so can't handle stairs. But he's available for adoption if you're interested.

Pete
Ragtag Golden Retriever Rescue

Boondox · Nov 26, 2004

( There is only so much environment you can imprint to a dog and the rest has to be genetics, something you don't get on a consistent basis from non-qualified breeders. )

This is so true, and sadly it is seen more often in very popular breeds because popularity brings out the unscrupulous backyard breeder who cares only about the cash. Genetic screening, pre-natal care, or socializing? Forget it! That impacts the bottom line! Gawd, I hate that attitude!

We have a couple of big golden breeding operations up here. One of the worst is just across the border in Quebec. The goldens coming out of that puppy mill are so badly socialized and so extremely aggressive that local shelters have stopped accepting them. They simply tell the owners to take it to their vet and "do the right thing" since the breeder refuses to accept responsibility.

I used to think golden behavioral issues were the result of bad puppy raising, but have seen to many of these dogs to believe that anymore. I now think it's the logical result of an ever-shrinking gene pool with money-focused breeders who care nothing about these wonderful animals.

Research your breeder carefully before buying! Pete

MarkLeininger · Nov 26, 2004

Roughcut,
( You and your wife have any DDR's GSD's ? )

No, they've all been West German. The best dog she had was a Visum Arminius progeny that was imported as a personal protection dog, but he turned out to have no civil agression. His father was the world sieger in the late 90s and sold for $600K off the show floor to some Japanese businessman. I think he's dead by now. This dog sat up at Tops kennel, a place that does a lot of police dogs in this area. The owner is a good friend with my wife and told her he had a great dog for schutzhund, but he had a few "little" problems. They imported him for $15K and gave him to my wife free because no one could do anything with him. Well he had a huge problem with dominance, but my wife had the time to work through it because this isn't her occupation so time's no issue. She took Jasso to Sch. III and he was a dynamo. He was only 75# but could knock down a 250 pound decoy like a bowling pin.

Her other dog is a sable and she also took her to Sch III. She's still alive but had to have hip surgery and is way into retirement. She was an outcross and still ended up with bad hips. It just happens sometime. So she still has a free dog coming from that breeder but she's' not going to take it until Ulli passes on. The breeder is a cop and does a lot of cop dogs, but he also did Schutzhund for a long time so still breeds for the sport.

I like the DDR dogs, they have the bigger blocky looking heads. Very intimidating. Part of the reason my wife has the dogs is so she can go walking in the woods or wherever she wants without worrying about the bad guys. So a slightly scary looking dog doesn't hurt.

Bird · Nov 26, 2004

( refused to let us adopt one of their dogs because we had no fenced yard )

We got our last dog from the pound and their rules required either a fenced yard or always take the dog out on a leash. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I did that for a few days. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

dliston · Nov 26, 2004

While we are considered "breeders", we don't even come close to breaking even. It costs us far more each year to health test (eyes, hearts, hips, knees, etc - all by veterinarian specialists), show, and raise than we get back. We do it because it is our hobby - what my wife and I enjoy.

I also second the notion that you should only get into breeding after more than a few years of intense experience in whatever breed you choose - otherwise you may not help the breed - may even hurt it.

Doug

slydog · Nov 26, 2004

( "I know a woman in Indiana that won't board Golden Retrievers anymore because she said: in 30 years of boarding she has only been bitten twice and they were both GRs. " )

Wow...My ex wife had two goldens that were the best temperamented (is that a word??) dogs that I have ever been around. I thought all goldens were that way. When we divorced, I sure missed those dogs......funny I didn't miss her at all /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

And thank you all for your responses and for educating me a little.

Ken

eee · Nov 26, 2004

I have 4 DDR's I keep on my farm,2 of them have the big blocky heads and 2 of the dogs heads are not so big,but I crossed the 2 with the smaller shaped heads for tempermant reasons and the one pup I kept from the cross has a large " blocky head" and he is a solid black...beautiful male about a year old.
I have 2 black and sable, the one solid black and a black and red and a black and tan "1/2 DDR and west GSD cross"
I am not a pro by no means...I just like the GSD dogs and became very interested in the DDR's.
The black and red female is very much my wifes dog,she will not let my wife out of her sight,Heaven forbid anyone that would ever make that dog think my wife was in danger. She does not even like for a cat or another dog to get near my wife.

Birdhunter1 · Nov 28, 2004

Sorry about your loss, I've been there several times in your shoes and it's just as bad if not worse than losing a family member. Sorry, I should say that after 10 1/2 years that dog is a family member. I don't know it all on breeding dogs but I'll be glad to share what I do know.

My dad and I raise and breed brittany's, we've had several litters and like has been said we read up on it but most of our knowledge has come from doing it and being around it for so long. Dad and I have some awesome hunting dogs, he's been asking me when I'm going to turn one into a field trial champ but truthfully neither of us has a desire to SHOW our dogs as most would think. Dad and I belong to an upland hunting club and we don't excatly show our dogs, we take them out and they PROVE themselves. Don't get me wrong showing them is not bad but what are your intentions? Our intentions are to raise bird dogs, we're good at that and getting them to the point they can go home to good owners and they'll hunt is what we do and ENJOY. Some go as pets and we know that up front, but most importantly we are able to choose who gets our dogs anfd who we turn away and we have turned several away in the past. Anyway back to the point, recouping costs isn't hard but it ain't easy. The thing about hunting dogs is that people usually want dogs that are from good hunting dogs or from field trial champs, not that all offspring will be excellent hunters but that's what "most" people weigh heavy on and look at. That being said we hunt our dogs and PROVE them rather than SHOW them. I guided 2 hunts over the weekend and someone who was watching us wanted to buy one of my dogs, there ain't enough money to get it from me but he wanted it and the way it stands right now if I had 6 or 7 pups I'd have them all spoken for to hunting families. Between the two of us we have 4 dogs and we've got roughly $2000 in kennels if we were to start from scratch (concrete floors, chainlink kennels, feeders, electricity and hardware, water systems etc.). We had a litter a few years ago and had 13 puppies that survived, we got our cost plus out of it but we were selling puppies cheaper than we would have liked too just to get rid of them (working with 13 pups isn't easy). The next year we had 6 puppies and because our dogs had built more of a name for themselves when people found out we had Britt's we sold them about double than what we got the year before for 2 reasons: (1) we had more time to devote to each pup as far as working with it and so on and (2) our dogs were well-established hunters and could back up with proof what we claimed they would do. We put up 1 advertisement flyer at the clubhouse and all of them sold to patrons or people who had hunted with us. The next litter (or 5 pups at least) is spoken for by word of mouth/sight, that's when you're doing good but it takes alot of work and expense to get to that.
When I said we've got our costs back it took three litters, 4 years and if we ever figured our time in on this we'd find we work for 00.xx an hour, but again we aren't in the business of making money, we're turning out bird dogs. Unless you have a large amount of dogs, a lot of time and unfortunatley (hate to say it) more of a puppy mill operation with several litters per year and not as picky as to who buys a dog from you then you aren't going to be profitable enough to call it a money maker. If you want to enjoy being around dogs, enjoy lots of work and have patience and the money up front to call it a hobby then you'd be a good candidate. I don't recommend getting into it for the money though.

You asked where to find good breedstock, what we did was to find features we wanted (blocky heads, tempermant, character, muscular/taller/stocky builds, coloration [orange and white] good health records on parents and parent dogs that were good hunters) and from there we built our own breedstock. More groundwork in this alone that anything else. Alot like farming where you'll learn more by the old fashioned trial and error method than what you could ever read in a book. I'm hooked onit, try it out yourself and see how you like it, but take soem good advice and don't go into it for the money.

If you want to ask me anything PM or email me.

Rick

Taylortractornut · Nov 29, 2004

I raise White German shepards They go like crazy here. I have some at 8 weeks old and didnt even adertize most are being sold as Christmas pups. They bring We put my mother through nursing school with German shepards and collies We raised several seperate litter and had alot of fun but it can be a pain when you have 13 pups and 12 nipples on the momma dog. We raised several runt by surroget mothers and by hand.