Any F-550 owners or towers out there ?

[ducati996]

Not one of my posts said the 5500 is built strong enough and big enough to compete with the 650/750 line.

That was Ducati making that claim.

The only thing I've maintained all along is that the 5500 4x4 99% of the time is factory built by GM at 19,500 GVWR obviously making it a direct competitor to the F-550 4x4 (if it's equipped with the extra payload package, otherwise a F-550 has a GVWR of 17,950 lbs).

I do believe the 5500 is significantly overbuilt compared to the F-550. It has a heavier front & rear axle, heavier frame and a superior drivetrain. It also has better "medium duty" characteristics, like a tilt nose hood and better ergonomics for the professional/commercial driver.

Simply put, it's substantially more truck for similar money.

I think the F-550 is built enough to do its' job. However, it shares so many similarities with its' lighter duty counterparts, like the F-250, that I think realistically, it's more of a beefed-up Duperduty pickup. OTOH, I think the 4500/5500 4x4 is not as similar to the lighter GM 2500 series pickups.

I never claimed anything - why would I need too when the mfg print specs for all to analyze. Im not sure why you dont acknowledge the F650 falls in the same price range (a few grand here or there isnt much difference IMHO) of the 5500, because there are a handful posted on truck traders and elsewhere.
As for the axle ratings, even the Ford adds up to over 19k, but they rate it at 19k as the maximum. Yes I know all about GWVR, and how you can get it moved up or down depending on your needs - heck I can get my local dejana rep to give me a sticker to change my GWVR to what ever I like (have it already) - can help with DOT.
Lets at least acknowledge what GM says the 5500 can be set up for 26k lbs is clearly stated and even if its 2wd, thats a respectable number - never an argument there. If its ordered as a 19k, then so be it -but the option of 26k is there in print.
Now as for real world feedback early on I stated what the truck will do and has done (weight receipts to prove it). I have had the truck loaded with 6 yards of topsoil at a time and it makes me grossly (DOT world view) overloaded at 27k. My dump bed handles 12 ton lifts no problem. This is done from everyone else leaving the yard with similar trucks. The point is the truck will handle it long term -but its not a practice I will do long term because of DOT limits. Im not promoting this as acceptable practice either-

So as things are objectively stated, and the trucks have similar rated drive trains, GWVR ratings, etc... Neither one of us can say that one truck will get the job (task) done any sooner than the other, otherwise that is just personal bias that cannot be substantiated.

So there you have it- the F650 is actually the better buy over the F550 or 4500/5500 - its significantly more truck than any of the others mentioned and dosent cost that much more -

 

[Builder]

Let me ask this then:

What is the GM6500 series designed to compete with?

Last I checked, the 6500 was a medium duty truck, typically set up at or a little below 26,000 GVWR, typically on 22.5" rims, medium duty CAT or 7.8L DMAX power, tilt forward hood, Allison 2000 series auto or a 6 or 7 speed trans. Just like an F-650.

Heck...even the numbers are almost the same: 6500/650

Your typical GM 5500 4x4 rides on 19.5" rims, has smaller axles, typically comes with a Allison 1000 series transmission and a smaller 6.6L DMAX or gas engine. Kinda like an F-550 4x4.

Hmm.

If you look here you will see the max rear axle rating on the 5500 is 13,500 lbs and the max front axle rating is 8,000 lbs. (Very similar to an F-550 4x4 except the 5500 has a 1,000lb greater front axle rating) So how could that possibly result in a 26,000 GVWR truck? The 26,000 GVWR must be a misprint.
GMC Topkick - Commercial GMC Truck

I have dozens of friends & aquaintances who run these trucks in landscaping & construction businesses, and any of them will tell you the 5500's primary duty is to beat the 550, not compete with the F-650. That's the 6500's job.

As far as helping the OP, I would offer to him in sincerity (no brand loyalty) that the F-550 is a beefed-up Superduty pickup. The 5500 is more like a true medium duty truck, but at an MSRP of $36,625 to $51,760 is right in the same price range as the F-550.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Let me ask this then:

What is the GM6500 series designed to compete with?

Last I checked, the 6500 was a medium duty truck, typically set up at or a little below 26,000 GVWR, typically on 22.5" rims, medium duty CAT or 7.8L DMAX power, tilt forward hood, Allison 2000 series auto or a 6 or 7 speed trans. Just like an F-650.

Heck...even the numbers are almost the same: 6500/650

Your typical GM 5500 4x4 rides on 19.5" rims, has smaller axles, typically comes with a Allison 1000 series transmission and a smaller 6.6L DMAX or gas engine. Kinda like an F-550 4x4.

Hmm.

If you look here you will see the max rear axle rating on the 5500 is 13,500 lbs and the max front axle rating is 8,000 lbs. (Very similar to an F-550 4x4 except the 5500 has a 1,000lb greater front axle rating) So how could that possibly result in a 26,000 GVWR truck? The 26,000 GVWR must be a misprint.
GMC Topkick - Commercial GMC Truck

I have dozens of friends & aquaintances who run these trucks in landscaping & construction businesses, and any of them will tell you the 5500's primary duty is to beat the 550, not compete with the F-650. That's the 6500's job.

As far as helping the OP, I would offer to him in sincerity (no brand loyalty) that the F-550 is a beefed-up Superduty pickup. The 5500 is more like a true medium duty truck, but at an MSRP of $36,625 to $51,760 is right in the same price range as the F-550.

I am not sure if this reply was directed at me but all I was saying is that GM did what Toyota is trying to do with the half ton. Build a truck that is closer to a 3/4 ton then a half ton but not go the full 3/4 ton route. That way it out distances all the other half ton trucks but specs more like a 3/4 ton (well according to the Toyota adverts).

Basically, if Ford decided to de-rate the F-650, put smaller tires on it and call it the new "F-550" it would be similar to what GM is doing. Overbuilding the truck to gain market share. Ford keeps showing commercials about how their bolts and other various parts are bigger and stronger then the competition. GM did that with the 4500/5500. But both trucks will accomplish the same task in the end if you use them for what they are rated for.

I am curious though since I don't really follow this class of truck. But does tire size really make that big of a difference to the class of truck?

 

[ducati996]

Let me ask this then:

What is the GM6500 series designed to compete with?

Last I checked, the 6500 was a medium duty truck, typically set up at or a little below 26,000 GVWR, typically on 22.5" rims, medium duty CAT or 7.8L DMAX power, tilt forward hood, Allison 2000 series auto or a 6 or 7 speed trans. Just like an F-650.

Heck...even the numbers are almost the same: 6500/650

Your typical GM 5500 4x4 rides on 19.5" rims, has smaller axles, typically comes with a Allison 1000 series transmission and a smaller 6.6L DMAX or gas engine. Kinda like an F-550 4x4.

Hmm.

If you look here you will see the max rear axle rating on the 5500 is 13,500 lbs and the max front axle rating is 8,000 lbs. (Very similar to an F-550 4x4 except the 5500 has a 1,000lb greater front axle rating) So how could that possibly result in a 26,000 GVWR truck? The 26,000 GVWR must be a misprint.
GMC Topkick - Commercial GMC Truck

I have dozens of friends & aquaintances who run these trucks in landscaping & construction businesses, and any of them will tell you the 5500's primary duty is to beat the 550, not compete with the F-650. That's the 6500's job.

As far as helping the OP, I would offer to him in sincerity (no brand loyalty) that the F-550 is a beefed-up Superduty pickup. The 5500 is more like a true medium duty truck, but at an MSRP of $36,625 to $51,760 is right in the same price range as the F-550.

We covered this ground already - the website shows up to 26K GVWR for 2wd on the 5500. Come on already Dead horse beaten, kicked, now its standing back up? It also shows that Fords 4wd dosent give up that much weight rating on its axles (19k max 2wd or 4wd ), like GM does between 2wd and 4WD (26k max 2wd/ 19 K 4wd)
Please price out a F650 -looks like it can take on GMC in two areas; the 5500 and 6500 both in price and specs....

Im now done with the comparison - the horse is finally dead (for me that is)
Peace-

Duc

 

[Builder]

Not directed at you, more just general information. I understand exactly what you're saying and it's a valid observation.

The F-650 isn't available in 4x4 from the factory. The 5500 is. That's the big difference that leaves the 650 comparison out in the cold. Besides, with only a 13,500lb rear axle available in the 5500, we've got to conclude that the 5500 could not acheive a 26K GVWR. The F-650 is avaialble with a 17,500 or 18,500 lb rear axle-far in excess of the maximum available 13,500lb axle in the 5500. Anyone would know right there that puts them in 2 different classes. The 5500 is a class 5 truck. The F-650 is a class 6 truck. The F-650 is also available with a 7.2L CAT producing 860 ft/lb of torque. The most you can get out of a 5500 is a DMAX at 650 ft lbs. How is that "comparable"?

Now the GM 6500 is available with a 7.8L DMAX producing 860 ftlbs of torque and it's a class 6 truck!!!! Hmmmmmm.

I think what we have to keep in front of us here for the OP is that Ford decided to build some small to medium duty trucks by doing what Ford has always done since the early 70's....take a pickup cab and plop it on a beefed up pickup suspension. All I have to do is recall the old days when I had an F-700. It had the same cab as my F-350.

That's great if that's what you want.

GM took a different approach with the 4500/5500. They started more from scratch. The cabs' interior & exterior is more suited to medium duty useage and better visibility than Ford, they built heavier frames than Ford, installed a bit bigger 245/19.5 tire than Ford, threw in a 8,000lb front 4x4 axle and decided to use a superior transmission than Ford. I've been involved in construction trucks for 25+ years and I can tell you that if you work trucks commercially for a living, you'd want those kind of features. Especially if you can get them for about the same price

 

[ducati996]

The F-650 isn't available in 4x4 from the factory. The 5500 is. That's the big difference that leaves the 650 comparison out in the cold. Besides, with only a 13,500lb rear axle available in the 5500, we've got to conclude that the 5500 could not acheive a 26K GVWR. The F-650 is avaialble with a 17,500 or 18,500 lb rear axle-far in excess of the maximum available 13,500lb axle in the 5500. Anyone would know right there that puts them in 2 different classes. The 5500 is a class 5 truck. The F-650 is a class 6 truck. The F-650 is also available with a 7.2L CAT producing 860 ft/lb of torque. The most you can get out of a 5500 is a DMAX at 650 ft lbs. How is that "comparable"?

I just learned something which I just found out to be true and assumed it would have 4wd as an option but apparently its does not - The F650 dosent come with it - However neither does the 6500!! Yes I know the OP wanted 4WD, so its down the the F550 & 5500. You keep missing the 26K GVWR spec and the rear axle rated at 19,000 for 2wd - this is posted on GMC site.
Apparanty 4wd is an issue for trucks at 26K GWVR and above? I dont know-

No more kicks after this one?

Duc

 

[Robert_in_NY]

It wasn't that long ago when all the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks were the same body and same basic truck as the 1/2 ton. If I recall, Ford was the one who came out with a dedicated platform for the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. GM took the lead with the 4500/5500.

Most of the guys I see running 450/550's use them for flatbeds. There are a couple dumpers but the guys who use dump trucks a lot buy trucks better suited for that job. There are not too many little guys (no offense meant to anyone) who use these type of trucks for construction purposes. They run Internationals mostly and pull heavy tag along trailers to pull their dozers, excavators, backhoes and anything else.

My friend uses his 550's to shuttle parts between their shops as well as short deliveries. The lawn guys use 450's and have their spray tanks mounted on them. Come to think of it, the only 4500/5500's I have seen in this area are on the dealers lot and that was only one. The guys who plow snow buy 3/4 and 1 tons and most real small dump trucks are based on the 1 ton frame locally. These are the landscapers who run these.

I really can't see how anyone can wear either of these trucks out unless they abuse them. Then again, I have had good luck with my 6.0L (whoops, I forgot about my LC disease, chances are the truck will be dead in the morning now )

In my case though I wouldn't buy the GM because of the price discounts I get thru Ford. I wonder if the OP has the same discounts which would be why he would be looking at Ford mainly.

 

[Builder]

The 4500/5500's are popular down here in my area. The reason they were slow to take off is because they came out 2 years after the 450/550 and they weren't available with 4x4 until about 2-3 years after that. Ford was first to the market in the 15-19K range and that was a big advantage to them.

I agree the 450/550 trucks are very light in terms of "real" trucks. I knew I made a mistake when I bought mine and even with an aluminum dump bed, it left me searching for a bigger true medium duty after only a year or 2.

I see the 4500/5500 now being used by fire companies and lots of them are being used by Verizon and other utility companies. A guy I know who works as a motorpool mechanic for a big utlity company told me they got tired of replacing Ford transmissions and the 6L was a huge reason they switched to the 4500/5500 4x4 when they became available.

I kind of wish I could work with a lighter truck so I could buy a 5500 4x4. With the 1000 or 2230 Allison RDS series trans, it has the manueverability of a 550 and the frame, front axle and driveline of an F-650 for not much more $$.

 

[wushaw]

Ok now that the weight rating debate has been beat to death....do any of the debators have any driving experience of any kind with both trucks in either 2wd or 4wd platforms for a driving comparison?

I drove a 4500 2wd two years ago and it felt weird...something someone would have to get used to...atleast me, can't really explain it...I have not driven the 450/550.
My big truck experience is 6mo in a FL-60 8.3 Cummins with a straight 10spd and 3 years so far with a Pete 385 C13 Cat 12spd Meritor Freedomline.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

My big truck experience was running an International Transtar pulling a 28' dump trailer. My friend who owns it was suppose to pull it to the fields for me but his wife got sick and told me to just take it. It was an interesting learning experience and I am fortunate I didn't get stopped. But the oats needed to be harvested....

I can say this, after driving the Transtar the F-250's don't seem big at all and my 150 feels tiny.