Any hydraulic eng. designer's out there?

[Rustyiron]

Just checked my email, $1470 + $85 flat rate shipping on the Samuri. Make's it silly to build one, as long as it does what I need it to do.
I need to hear C/M's testamonial first.

 

[Coyote machine]

I've had mine since sometime last season. I haven't used it enough to say too much about it because the Kioti OEM loader bucket has some odd pieces of metal used to reinforce the bucket sidewalls, so the Samuri clamp doesn't really fit my bucket as well as it could. Therefore I bought a skidsteer flat QA plate to weld a specific to the Samuri bracket to for making the rig work best on my tractor. Otherwise, it does a good job of cutting branches and grasses/weeds, overgrown brush, etc. Remember it is NOT a chainsaw or limb cutter by design. It will cut what fits between the serrated cutters; best to cut green/live branches, rather than dead ones, due to the harder cut on dead wood.

I think one ought to pre cut the really thick dead wood first season of use and then use the Samuri to do the rest of any overhead cutting, then keep after it each season.

I run mine off my front mounted hoses, which are on a bracket on my loader's structural support tube between my loader arms. I use my joystick single trigger loader control handle to operate the sickle bar. Either pull left or push right will cycle the cutters. Throttle control lever for my HST transmission controls ground speed; and thus speed of the cutters. The rule of thumb is if you can't see the cutters moving, or if they are blurred then the cutters are moving too fast. I have no restrictions on the cutter or hydraulic feed to/from it.
I have not needed any parts to date. The cutters are individual, and have serrated edges.
I don't believe obtaining teeth would be an issue. I have talked to the owner a couple of times and he's a real nice guy and accommodating too. They have tried to keep the price point viable for most people who need this kind of tool.
I can't compare it to other sickle bars- I have no experience with them.

Hope this answers the questions people may have....

 

[SPYDERLK]

Thanks for the responding! JJ & a few others, I found an old post about the samuri with you guy's discussing it and there was discussion about the gpm & psi that it wanted. Both numbers were extremely low and I'd like to be able use it on either my tractor or skidsteer. The SS puts out 27+ gpm and I would be suprised if didn't put out too much at an idle. I'm sure the pressure's are WAY above their recomendations also. This would really make the rest of the machine operate very slowly and possibly stall while moving both the machine and the loader/bucket. Also my experience with sickle bar cutters is that they are really meant for cutting grass/hay. The Samuri looks like any other (grass cutting) sickle bar, well at least from the web site. Now I need some follow up by Mr Coyote Machine.
Mr C/M, how do you like it and what size (branches) do you usually cut? Are the cutter segments the same as say a NH or any other haybine of sickle bar or are they heavier and how are they (manufacturer) for parts?

The cutter segments are triangular as on regular sickle bars, but more "pointed". Their base side were they attach to the bar is narrower. This gives closer spaced cutter points; hence limiting the size branch it will admit [it seems 1-1/4 is about the limit]. Your gpm is probably too high and will need to be divided, but the strength of the cutter is enuf to deal with the drive motor torque developed at 2600psi. If your relief setting is much above that it could be enuf to damage it if you hit something sizable and hard.
larry

 

[muddstopper]

I know this isnt what your looking at spending, but here it is anyways. Performance Features | Hydraulic Tree Trimmer | Jarraff Industries, Inc.. While there are many sizes, typical saw blade is 24in carbide tipped. It will cut thru about a 9inch limb. Saw arbor is about 6in dia, and has a 1in bore, and takes up a little more of the cutting surface than it should.
A good 1cuin or so hy motor and a gear box to get the tip speed right and you can trim, top or saw the tree down with one of those.

 

[MossRoad]

I'm dreaming up a heavy slow speed sickle bar type branch trimmer that would operate like a "hybrid" sickle bar/lopper to keep my roads & trails trimmed back, I have miles of them. I'd like to operate it with a cylinder or cylinder(s) rather than a motor. Is it possible to have it "plumbed" to cycle (extend & retract) automatically? I'm thinking slow speed, blunt brute force would be better than relying on a higher speed/much sharper cutting means for cutting small limbs up to about 1.5".
The unit would be a simple bolt or clamp on to a bucket or brush grapple, driven by the machine's hydraulic's. It would not take much of a stroke, a few inches at most, and (guessing) maybe a stroke per second. I'm hearing this winter might be another long snowy one and this might be a good a winter project.:licking:
Here are a few links "store bought" similar cutters that I'd like to merge. The Alamo unit seem's to be much "beefier" and I favor that one. The other one is not that expensive but I'd rather build one, even though if I count my time it will prolly cost twice as much:laughing:
http://www.alamo-industrial.com/Documents/Literature/52_timbercat.pdf or Eterra Razor 5' Boom Mounted Sickle Mower Attachment for Skid Steer Loader | Skid Steer Solutions

Read that first link you posted to.... it mentions that the cutter is powered by a 3" bore hydraulic cylinder (not a motor like the units others are showing you) and runs at about 50 cycles per minute. It uses a specific type of valve to operate that cylinder automatically, called and inversion valve or automatic reciprocating valve, similar to this, I believe...

http://www.mmrogness.com/docs/recp.pdf

or this

http://apps.boschrexroth.com/products/compact-hydraulics/PiB-Catalogs/pdf/L5235X00000000.pdf

or this...

D05 Hydraulic Reciprocation Valve Aron AD5RI211Z3003 | eBay

 

[oldnslo]

mossroad,
I agree that one of these style valves would control the cylinder function for sickle application.

 

[boggen]

if memory serves someone i want to say last year here on TBN. made a bar with multiple circular saw blades on it. and just chained each blade to a single hydraulic motor.

i want to say about half a dozen folks have built a boom pole saw (chain saw blade on it) that you could move around something like a backhoe but mounted on the FEL. chain saw = hydraulic chain saw via a hydraulic motor

there is a good amount of rotary cutters (laymen terms bush hogs) mounted to trackers. to cut trees / brushes / banks. and you can angle them all about to fit the need. some have also mounted fail mowers instead of rotary cutters to the booms...

i do not remember seeing any sort of "scissors" or handle held branch cutters. setup in multiple sets on a bar. going to assume folks went for a sickle bar / hedge trimmer type of cutting setup for simplicity sake.

=============
i would more opt for a hedge trimmer / sickle bar mower type of cutter. due to ability of the teeth kinda grasp the branch and then cut it. everything else will more than likely catch and twist and bend branches. i mean hedge / bush trimmers do just that. seems like you are looking just for a larger scale model. to handle larger diameter branches.

keep in mind cutting hedges / bushes with a trimmer. faster they cycle the faster you can go. but you can get into a tanglish mess when you get a hold of larger branches in a bush and stall the trimmers out. being able to adjust both cycle and more so keep pressure up might be wanted for a larger setup?

other issue is teeth both on bar that does not move and then on the bar that does move... you are asking those teeth to take a beating if they are not beefed up enough. you are not just out mowing the hay / weeds. but you are purposely beating the machine on descent size branches non stop for most part.

trimming bushes / hedges with a trimmer. and playing funky feet with twigs that fall down or perhaps an electrical cord :/ is there any shields or something you might be able to use or setup for larger branches coming out of trees?. to push the bushes off the front wheel / radiator / muffler extending out of the hood? or are you simply going to extend it out a few feet from tractor. so the branches falls down between the cutter and side of tractor?

 

[SPYDERLK]

if memory serves someone i want to say last year here on TBN. made a bar with multiple circular saw blades on it. and just chained each blade to a single hydraulic motor.

i want to say about half a dozen folks have built a boom pole saw (chain saw blade on it) that you could move around something like a backhoe but mounted on the FEL. chain saw = hydraulic chain saw via a hydraulic motor

there is a good amount of rotary cutters (laymen terms bush hogs) mounted to trackers. to cut trees / brushes / banks. and you can angle them all about to fit the need. some have also mounted fail mowers instead of rotary cutters to the booms...

i do not remember seeing any sort of "scissors" or handle held branch cutters. setup in multiple sets on a bar. going to assume folks went for a sickle bar / hedge trimmer type of cutting setup for simplicity sake.

=============
i would more opt for a hedge trimmer / sickle bar mower type of cutter. due to ability of the teeth kinda grasp the branch and then cut it. everything else will more than likely catch and twist and bend branches. i mean hedge / bush trimmers do just that. seems like you are looking just for a larger scale model. to handle larger diameter branches.

keep in mind cutting hedges / bushes with a trimmer. faster they cycle the faster you can go. but you can get into a tanglish mess when you get a hold of larger branches in a bush and stall the trimmers out. being able to adjust both cycle and more so keep pressure up might be wanted for a larger setup?

other issue is teeth both on bar that does not move and then on the bar that does move... you are asking those teeth to take a beating if they are not beefed up enough. you are not just out mowing the hay / weeds. but you are purposely beating the machine on descent size branches non stop for most part.

trimming bushes / hedges with a trimmer. and playing funky feet with twigs that fall down or perhaps an electrical cord :/ is there any shields or something you might be able to use or setup for larger branches coming out of trees?. to push the bushes off the front wheel / radiator / muffler extending out of the hood? or are you simply going to extend it out a few feet from tractor. so the branches falls down between the cutter and side of tractor?

Good stuf! ... Remenber also, that pressure follows the load virtually instantly in hydraulics. So your cutter, etc, just moves with lo pressure when moving freely, but since the fluid is incompressible as soon as you start to try to cut something the tool slows very slightly. -- Flow remains constant and the pressure rises instantly to suit the load.

 

[Rustyiron]

Read that first link you posted to.... it mentions that the cutter is powered by a 3" bore hydraulic cylinder (not a motor like the units others are showing you) and runs at about 50 cycles per minute. It uses a specific type of valve to operate that cylinder automatically, called and inversion valve or automatic reciprocating valve, similar to this, I believe...

http://www.mmrogness.com/docs/recp.pdf

or this

http://apps.boschrexroth.com/products/compact-hydraulics/PiB-Catalogs/pdf/L5235X00000000.pdf

or this...

D05 Hydraulic Reciprocation Valve Aron AD5RI211Z3003 | eBay

Thanks for those links, that's exactly what I think that it would take. I'd prefer the cylinder operated type as I believe that it would be more powerful (than a motor) and with hyd. motors, I understand how you determine torque, I just don't have a feeling on determining what that (torque) should be for the task I'm asking of it. This has been my issue with using hyd. motors on other projects also. I need to call the Samurai folks and see if this is a "weekender" hedge trimmer or would it survive hours of use in a more commercial type operation. No offence to any "weekenders", but the price is, well let's say I'm a firm believer in "you get what you pay for" and their price seem's very good for what it is or any other hydraulic attachment for that matter.
I'd be happy to be able to cut up to 1 1/2" as long as it can hold up to more than an average once a year "weekender" trip around his hedge along with a few other chores on a few acres. This use, on sub compact lawn tractors is what I see as a demonstration on their site. Again, my requirements, while not actually commercial are a bit more than that and I mean no disrespect to any weekenders or smaller tractors!

 

[J_J]

I am thinking you will have to be driving really really slow for a cyl to extend and return.

As far as cutting ability, the cyl will have the power, but will the teeth you are pushing be capable of the job.

The smaller the cyl, the faster the extend and return, with the shortest stroke to allow a full open and close of the teeth.

Actually, a regen valve will double the speed on on extend stroke. Return stroke will be normal.

I still say the motor/blade combination is the better option.