Thanks for joining the discussion and for your input. I can appreciate what you're saying because even the big highways trucks that look after out rural roads, eventually end up with banks that are too high to throw the snow over. Then they use a wing to push back the tops, which allows the front mounted plows to throw the snow again. I guess I will always need a blower but sure would like to reduce the number of times I need to use it. Maybe I won't mind using it when I get it converted to front mount. The stage I'm at now, the banks are about 30" high and I have used the blower to make the driveway as wide as possible. Now when I plow it just stacks up against these banks on both sides and there are some areas where the bank to bank distance is fairly narrow and it wouldn't take much snow plowing before I will need to blow again. Based on the long range forecast I may not have to blow again, if I'm lucky.
Anyone Bent Their FEL Using a Snow Plow
- Thread starter Hilbilly
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Thanks for joining the discussion and for your input. I can appreciate what you're saying because even the big highways trucks that look after out rural roads, eventually end up with banks that are too high to throw the snow over. Then they use a wing to push back the tops, which allows the front mounted plows to throw the snow again. I guess I will always need a blower but sure would like to reduce the number of times I need to use it. Maybe I won't mind using it when I get it converted to front mount. The stage I'm at now, the banks are about 30" high and I have used the blower to make the driveway as wide as possible. Now when I plow it just stacks up against these banks on both sides and there are some areas where the bank to bank distance is fairly narrow and it wouldn't take much snow plowing before I will need to blow again. Based on the long range forecast I may not have to blow again, if I'm lucky.
Sno
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Lots of good information and suggestions. If you do get someone to plow with a truck as a trial, the wheelbase of the truck will make a big difference on the inside of any corners, as will the width of the plow. I have had good luck when the road is getting narrow by using the plow to scrape a little from each bank. That leaves a pile the length of the road that is much easier to blow than fighting with steering the blower with one edge in a bank.
Sno,
Those are good points. I have the longest pick up truck, crew cab with long box, and I have some very tight corners to turn. Pretty sure there is no way an 8' wide plow would work well on the inside of the corners. I also like your idea of scraping the banks into the middle. Might give that a try next time.
Those are good points. I have the longest pick up truck, crew cab with long box, and I have some very tight corners to turn. Pretty sure there is no way an 8' wide plow would work well on the inside of the corners. I also like your idea of scraping the banks into the middle. Might give that a try next time.
So yesterday I decided to give the HLA 2000 a try and went into the city to get one. I was 95% sure it wouldn't work well on my driveway and expected to have to make changes to the mounting system to allow for a blade float. Got it home all excited to give it a try and mounted it on the tractor loader. The first 100' or so was an eye opener. No matter where I put the loader arms it was never the right height. Too high and it leaves too much snow behind, too low and the blade digs in and I have no steering. This would constantly change too, as I was going over humps or through hollows. Then I start playing with the curl controls and the same thing happens. I figured it is likely something I'm doing or not doing so the next step was to try it with the loader in float. I discovered that worked much better but I had to have the curl exactly right or the same things would happen again. I also noted that the skid shoes had to be in contact with the surface or the blade would dig in. Also noted that the loader arms were just barely off the ground when it was at the best setting. I had several instances where the loader arms were dragging. So far this is not looking good. I did like the width because that allowed me to plow on the inside of some tight turns on the driveway but I didn't like the extra torque being applied to the loader. There were a few instances where the loader struck something but the blade never tripped and on one occasion I thought there may have been damage to the loader. I will check it more today. One place I was impressed was at the bottom of the driveway, where there was a width of recently plowed snow that was against the previous vertical bank produced by the blower. It was about 3' to 4' wide. I made a couple of passes through this stuff and the blade pushed it very well and some even went over the top of the vertical wall. Neither myself or my neighbor were able to plow this with our back blades and the only way to get rid of it before was using a SS to push it back (very slow process) or for me to use the blower.
I then tried all of this using the SS and go the same results.
Conclusions so far;
1) as is, I don't think I should continue to use it or I will damage my loader
2) maybe by installing a float on the plow the problem will go away but what if it doesn't. Now I have damaged a new plow and the resale value will likely go down.
3) maybe I need to adjust the trip springs and see if that helps.
So far I'm thinking I should have got a truck plow but I priced out new ones and they ranged from $9,000 to $12,000 plus installation and taxes, for the name brand ones. The el cheapos at Costco or Canadian Tire were a consideration and they ranged from $1,800 to $3,500 plus installation and taxes. My neighbor had one of these a few years ago and ended up taking 2 back (money back on second one) because the mounting frame work kept getting damaged and that was on a short driveway of around 200'. I doubt these would last on a much longer, rougher driveway. Plus none of the ones I looked are were warrantied on an F350. They were meant for light duty vehicles and personal / home use, read light use. My application would be considered abusive.
Now what. I talked to the dealer before paying for the HLA 2000 and asked if he would take it back if I wasn't happy with it. He reluctantly said he would but I would take a $500 hit because it was now used. I didn't ask if the taxes would be rebated and I would only pay tax on the $500 or the full purchase amount. If I have to pay the full tax plus the $500 that would be a $900 hit.
I keep going back to Eric's videos and watching his 8' plow and how well it performs, without any visible impact on the loaders. Is that a function of the trip springs being less looser, the angle of the plow blade to the ground, or the plow being floating?
Another point about my situation is that right now I have a frozen relatively smooth surface under the snow. That should provide the best conditions for this plow to NOT dig or catch. Earlier in the season there will not be a nice smooth base for the plow to run on.
Lets hear your thoughts.
I then tried all of this using the SS and go the same results.
Conclusions so far;
1) as is, I don't think I should continue to use it or I will damage my loader
2) maybe by installing a float on the plow the problem will go away but what if it doesn't. Now I have damaged a new plow and the resale value will likely go down.
3) maybe I need to adjust the trip springs and see if that helps.
So far I'm thinking I should have got a truck plow but I priced out new ones and they ranged from $9,000 to $12,000 plus installation and taxes, for the name brand ones. The el cheapos at Costco or Canadian Tire were a consideration and they ranged from $1,800 to $3,500 plus installation and taxes. My neighbor had one of these a few years ago and ended up taking 2 back (money back on second one) because the mounting frame work kept getting damaged and that was on a short driveway of around 200'. I doubt these would last on a much longer, rougher driveway. Plus none of the ones I looked are were warrantied on an F350. They were meant for light duty vehicles and personal / home use, read light use. My application would be considered abusive.
Now what. I talked to the dealer before paying for the HLA 2000 and asked if he would take it back if I wasn't happy with it. He reluctantly said he would but I would take a $500 hit because it was now used. I didn't ask if the taxes would be rebated and I would only pay tax on the $500 or the full purchase amount. If I have to pay the full tax plus the $500 that would be a $900 hit.
I keep going back to Eric's videos and watching his 8' plow and how well it performs, without any visible impact on the loaders. Is that a function of the trip springs being less looser, the angle of the plow blade to the ground, or the plow being floating?
Another point about my situation is that right now I have a frozen relatively smooth surface under the snow. That should provide the best conditions for this plow to NOT dig or catch. Earlier in the season there will not be a nice smooth base for the plow to run on.
Lets hear your thoughts.
TSO
Elite Member
I have heard some people having luck with mounting a rubber edge on the bottom of the blade so that the metal cutting edge isn't making contact with the ground.
I have also heard of people taking a length of PVC tubing, notching it out lengthwise and placing it under/inside for the current edge to rest on, so that the plow glides on the PVC instead of the metal cutting edge.
Good luck.
I have also heard of people taking a length of PVC tubing, notching it out lengthwise and placing it under/inside for the current edge to rest on, so that the plow glides on the PVC instead of the metal cutting edge.
Good luck.
Coyote machine
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Hilbilly,
Sorry to hear the new plow isn't living up to expectations. I do find from years of use with it that lowering it until the shoes just touch the snow surface and then adjusting the loader slightly and slowly so the ends of the loader arms are not touching works for me. When I first had the plow I had some of your stated issues with it. You might try lowering the shoes some to allow more clearance where the blade contacts the snow. Unless you're attempting to scrape your drive completely clean like a squeegee would, a small coating of snow is clean enough, IMHO. Play with it, and maybe get off the tractor to see what actual angle the blade and FEL arms are at when ideally set by looking at the blade and FEL arms from the sides of the tractor. Don't give up on it yet, remember your drive is unusual in length etc.
I also sometimes, depending on the drive's condition raise the fel up slightly more than usual and allow just the edge of the plow to skim the drive without engaging the skid/feet. This allows downward angle of attack by the blade leaning forward of vertical, but without so much angle that it digs. Slow is best motion, though going over banks by lifting the plow and then dropping slightly to pull a bank back toward you works well to move snow around as needed. This works especially well if there is a large accumulation like by a lawn area where the melted snow in Spring would otherwise display large amounts of gravel scraped off the drive surface at certain times in the season.
Again I've been using the plow for a number of seasons and find at the beginning of the season I have to remind myself what works best for different conditions. Once done, I'm good to go for the rest of the season.
I do find it will push banks I've built up at my ditches WAY high to the point if I'm plowing with my hoe on the back the hoe's bucket will start dragging behind me if I'm not paying close attention to how high I push the snow and the resulting angle.
What happened to a ride along with a pro? You could still do that with one who might have experience with using tractor plows...
Post back thoughts, questions; but don't give up just from one use. I'm confident you will make it work, just like I did. Be patient and go slow, there's no need to push fast and have less than optimal results. It's a learning curve, like anything you want to do well it doesn't happen first try...:thumbsup:
Sorry to hear the new plow isn't living up to expectations. I do find from years of use with it that lowering it until the shoes just touch the snow surface and then adjusting the loader slightly and slowly so the ends of the loader arms are not touching works for me. When I first had the plow I had some of your stated issues with it. You might try lowering the shoes some to allow more clearance where the blade contacts the snow. Unless you're attempting to scrape your drive completely clean like a squeegee would, a small coating of snow is clean enough, IMHO. Play with it, and maybe get off the tractor to see what actual angle the blade and FEL arms are at when ideally set by looking at the blade and FEL arms from the sides of the tractor. Don't give up on it yet, remember your drive is unusual in length etc.
I also sometimes, depending on the drive's condition raise the fel up slightly more than usual and allow just the edge of the plow to skim the drive without engaging the skid/feet. This allows downward angle of attack by the blade leaning forward of vertical, but without so much angle that it digs. Slow is best motion, though going over banks by lifting the plow and then dropping slightly to pull a bank back toward you works well to move snow around as needed. This works especially well if there is a large accumulation like by a lawn area where the melted snow in Spring would otherwise display large amounts of gravel scraped off the drive surface at certain times in the season.
Again I've been using the plow for a number of seasons and find at the beginning of the season I have to remind myself what works best for different conditions. Once done, I'm good to go for the rest of the season.
I do find it will push banks I've built up at my ditches WAY high to the point if I'm plowing with my hoe on the back the hoe's bucket will start dragging behind me if I'm not paying close attention to how high I push the snow and the resulting angle.
What happened to a ride along with a pro? You could still do that with one who might have experience with using tractor plows...
Post back thoughts, questions; but don't give up just from one use. I'm confident you will make it work, just like I did. Be patient and go slow, there's no need to push fast and have less than optimal results. It's a learning curve, like anything you want to do well it doesn't happen first try...:thumbsup:
A little more info:
I loosened the trip springs until they were very loose and that was still too tight so I ended up removed 2 of the trip springs. Now it trips when I feel the tractor load up. Much better on the tractor. I tried tilting the blade far forward and if I went slow enough I could fiddle with the tilt and loader height to get the blade to scrape, without loosing steering but I was traveling in high 1st or 2nd and slow. Too slow for my liking. With the rear blade I travel in high 3rd or 4th and no fiddling with height or angle. But the rear blade isn't as high so a lot of snow goes over the top. I really like the results from the higher and wider blade, just not all the fiddling and slow speed.
Also checked the loader and it seems fine.
I called the dealer and told him of my experiences and he didn't seem to care but I did ask about the taxes if I returned it and he said the taxes would be refunded.
Coyote,
You could be right and maybe I just need more seat time with this. When I first got the Skid steer I hated the thing but now I love it. Not sure I will get to love this though.
I didn't do the ride along with a pro because I found the prices for new truck plow to be ridiculous and I won't spend that much on one. Maybe I should still do it though in case I end up finding a reasonable deal on a used truck /plow combo.
I guess the next / last thing to try is adjusting the shoes lower and giving the blade more tilt. That would reduce the potential for the loader arms to drag.
I loosened the trip springs until they were very loose and that was still too tight so I ended up removed 2 of the trip springs. Now it trips when I feel the tractor load up. Much better on the tractor. I tried tilting the blade far forward and if I went slow enough I could fiddle with the tilt and loader height to get the blade to scrape, without loosing steering but I was traveling in high 1st or 2nd and slow. Too slow for my liking. With the rear blade I travel in high 3rd or 4th and no fiddling with height or angle. But the rear blade isn't as high so a lot of snow goes over the top. I really like the results from the higher and wider blade, just not all the fiddling and slow speed.
Also checked the loader and it seems fine.
I called the dealer and told him of my experiences and he didn't seem to care but I did ask about the taxes if I returned it and he said the taxes would be refunded.
Coyote,
You could be right and maybe I just need more seat time with this. When I first got the Skid steer I hated the thing but now I love it. Not sure I will get to love this though.
I didn't do the ride along with a pro because I found the prices for new truck plow to be ridiculous and I won't spend that much on one. Maybe I should still do it though in case I end up finding a reasonable deal on a used truck /plow combo.
I guess the next / last thing to try is adjusting the shoes lower and giving the blade more tilt. That would reduce the potential for the loader arms to drag.
FatTire
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Hilbilly,
I feel your pain. I have a heavy SS style V-plow that I use on a Kubota 5740 (57hp). It took me half a winter to get good with it, and even now I don't use it unless I have tire chains on all four. Doesn't steer well without the front chains.
Occasionally I still dig up some roadbase, gravel etc. even when I'm being careful. When I have everything set the way I like the loader arms are quite close to the ground, like within 2 inches. Once I got used to it I found it is an amazing tool in tough conditions.
Today I had a small amount of snow (5 or 6 inches) on unfrozen driveways, I went real slow and still skimmed off some road base here and there. This blade has a trip edge. I've hit rocks too big for the trip edge at low speed, which felt like running into a wall, and no damage to either the plow or FEL. (Pretty jarring, I jump off and do a quick inspection before continuing.)
All of my work is on dirt and gravel, I can't say what it would be like to use it on pavement. Probably pretty nice.
I feel your pain. I have a heavy SS style V-plow that I use on a Kubota 5740 (57hp). It took me half a winter to get good with it, and even now I don't use it unless I have tire chains on all four. Doesn't steer well without the front chains.
Occasionally I still dig up some roadbase, gravel etc. even when I'm being careful. When I have everything set the way I like the loader arms are quite close to the ground, like within 2 inches. Once I got used to it I found it is an amazing tool in tough conditions.
Today I had a small amount of snow (5 or 6 inches) on unfrozen driveways, I went real slow and still skimmed off some road base here and there. This blade has a trip edge. I've hit rocks too big for the trip edge at low speed, which felt like running into a wall, and no damage to either the plow or FEL. (Pretty jarring, I jump off and do a quick inspection before continuing.)
All of my work is on dirt and gravel, I can't say what it would be like to use it on pavement. Probably pretty nice.
Coyote machine
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I've gone over text above to point out certain things. Blue is what you have stated that you did and results. Red is about things I think you ought to give more time to, especially where you say you hated your skid steer and now love it.
You seem somewhat impulsive and impatient. These are my observations, not criticisms. You may not like slowing down but if you get better results- why fight what works?! You like the higher wider blade too, so list for your own satisfaction what you like and build on it. Consider that you want the loader arms not to drag, so make the adjustments so that is happening then plow at the speed the plow works best at, without borrowing trouble about having to 'fiddle with it'.
Maybe you're just not used to using something that takes some time and effort to get right before kicking it to the curb. Whatever the case think about how long it took to go from hate to love with the SS, for one thing.
BTW, I hardly ever get to the point of tripping the blade on my plow, but sometimes it does, mostly if I've made a mistake that could have been avoided by better operator focus on the job I was doing at the time.
** Adjust the shoes HIGHER to raise the blade off the drive, NOT lower! More shims under the shoe bracket, not less....
I went to my daughters place to try the plow some more. I already plowed everywhere at my place and in some areas several times, just trying to get the feel of this thing.
Her place has a short driveway of about 100' then an open area of about 150' x 100'. All of it gravel but fairly uniformly graded. I found that to be easier to control and without using the loader float there was less stress on the loader. For me, so far anyways, it seems this plow and my operation of it, are better suited to uniformly graded areas. When I got back I lowered the skid shoes ( to me lowering them means dropping them, by adding spacers under the bracket). Same result as you describe Coyote, just a different perspective I guess. Anyways I tried that for a short distance on my already cleared area in front of the house and still have the same issues, albeit the loader arms are a bit higher off the surface, which is good.
I have a question. Is it necessary to always use the skid shoes and have them riding on the surface. I ask because my son in law has a truck mounted plow and only uses the skid shoes until there is a solid base for the plow to ride on and then removes the shoes. The plow rides nicely on the hard surface without shoes. I wonder if that would work with this plow, if it had a float system like the truck plow or is it due to the geometry of the plow. I note this plow has a very shallow angle of approach and seems to be designed to slice the snow rather than scrape it. I'm going to take a closer look at the son in laws plow tomorrow.
Her place has a short driveway of about 100' then an open area of about 150' x 100'. All of it gravel but fairly uniformly graded. I found that to be easier to control and without using the loader float there was less stress on the loader. For me, so far anyways, it seems this plow and my operation of it, are better suited to uniformly graded areas. When I got back I lowered the skid shoes ( to me lowering them means dropping them, by adding spacers under the bracket). Same result as you describe Coyote, just a different perspective I guess. Anyways I tried that for a short distance on my already cleared area in front of the house and still have the same issues, albeit the loader arms are a bit higher off the surface, which is good.
I have a question. Is it necessary to always use the skid shoes and have them riding on the surface. I ask because my son in law has a truck mounted plow and only uses the skid shoes until there is a solid base for the plow to ride on and then removes the shoes. The plow rides nicely on the hard surface without shoes. I wonder if that would work with this plow, if it had a float system like the truck plow or is it due to the geometry of the plow. I note this plow has a very shallow angle of approach and seems to be designed to slice the snow rather than scrape it. I'm going to take a closer look at the son in laws plow tomorrow.
